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Hurricane Rita Hits: N.Orleans flooded again
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EFLtrainer



Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
I'm not sure that these hurricanes are sypmtoms of global warming either.


I couldn't prove Bush would get us in unjust wars, limit freedoms, weaken environmental standards, give tax breaks to the rich.... but I knew he would.

Sometimes waiting till a thing can b proven is waiting too long.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you can see, Hurricane rita has surpassed Katrina in strength and if you look at the latest image tracker, has now moved significantly closer to the Southern U.S.

Rita, More Intense Than Katrina, Bears Down on Texas
Hurricane Rita, the third-most intense storm ever recorded in the Atlantic basin, bore down on the Texas coast as residents moved inland. The Category 5 storm is more powerful than Katrina, which left more than 1,000 dead last month in Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi and Florida.

Hurricane Rita bears down on US coast with mega force
September 22, 2005
Hurricane Rita turned into a 265-kilometer-an-hour mega-storm as it hurtled across the Gulf of Mexico, forcing crews to abandon oil platforms and hundreds of thousands of people to flee the Texas coast.
http://www.physorg.com/news6684.html

Rita, with winds of 175 mph (280 kph), is ``potentially catastrophic,'' the National Hurricane Center said today.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aYJojJxFIDU4&refer=us

Oil, Gasoline Jump; Rita Disrupts U.S. Output, Imports in Gulf
Sept. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Crude oil and gasoline jumped and natural gas reached a record as Hurricane Rita gained strength, with winds surpassing those of Katrina, disrupting supplies at rigs and refineries spared from last month's storm.
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000086&sid=amWBTTKItaqc&refer=news_index

Kuros: here is that other study you're waiting on.

National Center for Atmospheric Research/University Corporation for Atmospheric Research
NCAR climate expert: Hurricanes to intensify as Earth warms
The strongest links between hurricane intensity and climate change, according to Trenberth, are a long-term rise in ocean temperatures and an increase in atmospheric water vapor. Both processes are already under way and expected to continue, he says. The additional water vapor will tend to produce heavier rains within hurricanes and an increased risk of flooding at landfall, Trenberth notes.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-06/ncfa-nce061305.php

Recent warm water patterns in the gulf have intensified hurricanes:

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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tiger Beer wrote:
I got the graph for it.. you can watch it coming in.. just refreshing this .gif.


Its getting closer!

The evacuation isn't going so well either..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050923/ap_on_re_us/rita

In some of those areas, its taking 12 hours to just go 45 miles.. so whats that? about 4 miles per hour?

The hurricane is going about 10 hours per hour right now.. and its about 350 miles from the coast.. so it'll be about 35 hours before it reaches the mainland.

So lets figure that out.. those same people in the traffic jams in 36 hours will have made it about 135 miles more inland by the time it hits.. if they stay in their cars that entire next 36 hours and keep moving.

Hmm..
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A friend of mine living in Austin says the place is jammed pack full of people from Houston and the Gulf. People were buying a couple hundred dollars worth of water and batteries at the store she works at as well.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As predicted the storm has slowed to 140kph now and banked a little northward. I think it'll probably be a cat. 3 on landing and is unlikely to do anything like as much damage as Katrina. Although the oil installations in the area are a worry as regards posibble oil spill.

The outer edge has begun dropping rain on New Orleans I see.
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats crazy.. I've also been reading reports that gas stations are being exhausted of all their gas (along the way).. so have been reports of people out of gas and unable to get gas.

I also can't imagine how much hotels must cost right now in that area.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros: interesting article for you in today's news-
Scientist criticises U.S. climate 'loonies' Friday September 23, 03:44 AM
LONDON (Reuters) - A leading British scientist said on Friday the growing ferocity of hurricanes hitting the United States was very probably caused by global warming and criticised what he termed U.S. climate loonies over the issue.

Sir John Lawton, chairman of the Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution which advises the government, made what the Independent newspaper said was a thinly disguised attack on the stance of U.S.
President George W. Bush's administration.

"The increased intensity of these kinds of extreme storms is very likely to be due to global warming," Lawton told the newspaper in an interview.

"If this makes the climate loonies in the States realise we've got a problem, some good will come out of a truly awful situation," said Lawton.

Less than a month after Hurricane Katrina devastated large areas of the U.S. Gulf coast, a new hurricane called Rita was roaring through the Gulf of Mexico towards the centre of the U.S. oil industry.

Climate change policies sharply divide Bush from many other world leaders who have signed up for caps on emissions of greenhouse gases under the U.N.'s Kyoto protocol. Bush pulled out of Kyoto in 2001, saying it was too expensive and wrongly excluded developing nations from a first round of caps to 2012.

In July this year, Bush launched a six-nation plan to combat climate change with Australia, China, India, Japan and South Korea focussed on a shift to cleaner energy technology. Unlike Kyoto, it stops short of setting caps on emissions.

Asked what conclusion the Bush administration should draw from two powerful hurricanes hitting the United States in quick succession, Lawton said:

"If what looks like is going to be a horrible mess causes the extreme sceptics about climate change in the U.S. to reconsider their opinion, that would be an extremely valuable outcome.

"There are a group of people in various parts of the world ... who simply don't want to accept human activities can change climate and are changing the climate. I'd liken them to the people who denied that smoking causes lung cancer."

Lawton said hurricanes were getting more intense, just as computer models predicted they would, because of the rising temperature of the sea.

"Increasingly it looks like a smoking gun," he said.

"It's a fair conclusion to draw that global warming, caused to a substantial extent by people, is driving increased sea surface temperatures and increasing the violence of hurricanes."
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/23092005/325/scientist-criticises-u-s-climate-loonies.html

Amen to that.


Last edited by rapier on Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:33 am; edited 2 times in total
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now a category 4.
Unfortunately, it looks like Rita has has already claimed casualties:

Up to 20 Dead in Fire Aboard Evacuees' Bus
By SHEILA FLYNN, Associated Press Writer
20 minutes ago

WILMER, Texas - A bus carrying elderly evacuees from Hurricane Rita caught fire early Friday on a gridlocked highway near Dallas, killing as many as 20 people, authorities said.

"Deputies were unable to get everyone off the bus," spokesman Don Peritz said. "We believe it's going to be closer to 20 fatalities.

The bus, carrying about 45 people, was engulfed with flames, causing a 17-mile backup on Interstate 45.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050923/ap_on_re_us/rita_bus_explosion_hk1

Nation waits as refineries face storm Hurricane Rita hasn't made landfall yet, but the storm has shut down almost one-fifth of this country's refining capacity.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/05/rita/3366121

New Orleans wary of second dose
A few stragglers chance fate as the hurricane moves toward landfall
http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/05/rita/index.html


Last edited by rapier on Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Harpeau



Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Location: Coquitlam, BC

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rapier wrote:
Kuros: interesting article for you in today's news-
Scientist criticises U.S. climate 'loonies' Friday September 23, 03:44 AM
LONDON (Reuters) -
Climate change policies sharply divide Bush from many other world leaders who have signed up for caps on emissions of greenhouse gases under the U.N.'s Kyoto protocol. Bush pulled out of Kyoto in 2001, saying it was too expensive and wrongly excluded developing nations from a first round of caps to 2012.

In July this year, Bush launched a six-nation plan to combat climate change with Australia, China, India, Japan and South Korea focussed on a shift to cleaner energy technology. Unlike Kyoto, it stops short of setting caps on emissions.


Though Bush is a moron, I think he was right not to sign the Kyoto protocol. Developing nations should have also had caps placed on their emissions. My god, China is dumping a crapload of coal into the atmosphere. All nations should equally have caps set. Why only pick on America? What's with that?!
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harpeau wrote:
rapier wrote:
Kuros: interesting article for you in today's news-
Scientist criticises U.S. climate 'loonies' Friday September 23, 03:44 AM
LONDON (Reuters) -
Climate change policies sharply divide Bush from many other world leaders who have signed up for caps on emissions of greenhouse gases under the U.N.'s Kyoto protocol. Bush pulled out of Kyoto in 2001, saying it was too expensive and wrongly excluded developing nations from a first round of caps to 2012.

In July this year, Bush launched a six-nation plan to combat climate change with Australia, China, India, Japan and South Korea focussed on a shift to cleaner energy technology. Unlike Kyoto, it stops short of setting caps on emissions.


Though Bush is a moron, I think he was right not to sign the Kyoto protocol. Developing nations should have also had caps placed on their emissions. My god, China is dumping a crapload of coal into the atmosphere. All nations should equally have caps set. Why only pick on America? What's with that?!

Agreed. With the Kyoto Protocal.. and ALL of those types of things.. its not required for any nation anywhere in the world to follow those things EXCEPT in the U.S. Its written into the U.S. constitution that they must change their laws to honor any type of treaty - and the Kyoto thing would have been that. But all the other 170+ countries that supposedly signed it, none of them have enacted any legislation whatsoever to do anything - and thats always the case with all of those international agreements.. and the only reason why its ONLY the U.S. that doesn't sign them. Everyone else can easily sign them, because they have nothing enacted in their legislative systems to honor those.

If things like Kyoto were written in such a way that every country around the world was enforced to imply them no matter what.. then I highly doubt any nation on earth would sign them.. but even if they did and didn't apply them.. then what? whats international law? probably all the worlds nations would cry out to the US to enforce it to bomb China or India or whoever else isn't 'complying'.. and then of course could you imagine the international reaction on that? People are against bombing tyrants and terrorists.. could you imagine someone who had too many carbon emissions?

In other words, Kyoto had about ZERO chance of actually being implemented EVEN IF all the countries had a legislative system like the US where they forced themselves to comply to those types of treaty/agreements.

In regards to the hurricanes and global warning - hurricanes have been occurring there for milleniums.. its nothing new. Supposedly they go in massive 35-year cycles.. so back in 1920s-1950s and such.. MANY MANY hurricanes hit HARD in the Gulf.. we just don't remember them recently as it was during a low 35-year cycle. Scientients have been studying the bayous in Lousiana and by studying the carbon dating they verifying the 35-year cycles going back centuries and centuries, etc.


Last edited by Tiger Beer on Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harpeau wrote:

Though Bush is a moron, I think he was right not to sign the Kyoto protocol. Developing nations should have also had caps placed on their emissions. My god, China is dumping a crapload of coal into the atmosphere. All nations should equally have caps set. Why only pick on America? What's with that?!


I agree that other countries are also polluting the atmosphere, but not only is the US number 1 emitter of greenhouse gasses, it is supposed to be setting an example as the world leader.

When they adopted the Convention, governments knew that its commitments would not be sufficient to seriously tackle climate change.
-thats right, Kyoto doesn't go nearly far enough. At COP 1 (Berlin, March/April 1995), in a decision known as the Berlin Mandate, Parties therefore launched a new round of talks to decide on stronger and more detailed commitments for industrialized countries.As highest producers of g/h gasses, they were expected to lead the way.

The provisions of the Kyoto Protocol and its rulebook
http://unfccc.int/essential_background/kyoto_protocol/items/2830.php

What it comes down to is greed on the part of Bush's team of oil barons. We are racing over a precipice.
It is this attitude that will ensure ever increasing hurricanes spurred by global warming, and environmental collapse.
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rapier



Joined: 16 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rita Causes New Flooding in New Orleans
14 minutes ago

NEW ORLEANS - Hurricane Rita's steady rains sent water pouring through breaches in a patched levee Friday, cascading into one of the city's lowest-lying neighborhoods in a devastating repeat of New Orleans' flooding nightmare.
"We have three significant breaches in the levee and the water is rising rapidly"
"water rising about three inches a minute."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/hurricane_katrina_hk2;_ylt=AubbLa.AOUNgLCdpUixLrTWs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--
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poker player



Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Location: On the river

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a link to the TV station in Lake Charles Texas which is supposed to be ground zero when Rita hits land. They are doing a live stream from a bunker type environment-click on the link at the top. Scary stuff.
http://www.kplctv.com/
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khyber



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Though Bush is a moron, I think he was right not to sign the Kyoto protocol. Developing nations should have also had caps placed on their emissions. My god, China is dumping a crapload of coal into the atmosphere. All nations should equally have caps set.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/env_co2_emi&int=-1the straight up comparison.
what do you expect? There are over a billion people living there. It's second only to the us.
Look at per capita emissions.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/env_co2_emi_cap&int=-1
CO2 emissions include, obviously coal emissions.
At at that per capita sheet.... china is 80th...80th!!! per capita dude.
China is about the worst example
you could look at this chart...
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/env_pol_car_dio_fro_fos_fue_200&int=-1but you prolly won't want to.
Quote:
all the other 170+ countries that supposedly signed it, none of
them have enacted any legislation whatsoever to do anything

http://www.sierraclub.ca/national/kyoto/executive-summary-2004.htmlsierra club of canada speaks to that.
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EFLtrainer



Joined: 04 May 2005

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harpeau wrote:
Though Bush is a moron, I think he was right not to sign the Kyoto protocol. Developing nations should have also had caps placed on their emissions. My god, China is dumping a crapload of coal into the atmosphere. All nations should equally have caps set. Why only pick on America? What's with that?!


Doing something is better than doing nothing, and given that the US uses 1/3 of the world's resources, it is extremely negligent not to be involved in that. Bush's "strategy" is a perfect example of too little, too late. By the time - thirty years from now - that there has been a signficant decrease in the use of fossil fuels, the weather extremes will be well entrenched and will have caused trillions of dollars in losses and thousands of lives.

The hurricanes are a perfect example. While the system is simply moving into its active period, as is natural, the intensities and frequencies we are seeing were not expected for another ten years. We know far too little about Mother Nature to be pulling her apron strings. Thigns are going to go to hell rather frightfully faster than anyone thought. Bank it.

The time is now, or never.
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