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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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 Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:07 am Post subject: |
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��Soldiers on the ground always used to be confident enough to know what they could say to journalists,�� a captain remarked shortly before we left.
��With the control on information, now for the first time we see them turn round and ask their officers, ��What am I supposed to say sir?��. �� |
Thats not just in the military, in my last job before Korea. We were routinely told by our bosses and those who employed them, not to answer any questions asked by reporters, but to direct them to the media reps.
I also feel from personal experience gained in another job, that the media is sometimes their own worst enemy. I no longer will talk to them, even if not specifically told not too, just from my own personal experience. |
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supernick
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Actually I think you are right if there was no oil there would have been no war, because then Iraq would not be strategic and Al Qaida wouldn't be such a big threat because it would not be funded by oil .
I think it was more along the lines that the US didn't want Saddam to get anymore oil , that is why the US defended Kuwait . Since Saddam had oil and because he was in the Persian gulf he was potentialy a lot more dangerous than someone like Kim Jong Il. |
Now there's a first.
I had to laugh when I read a post on this board from an English man who said that he believes that the real reason for the war in Iraq was over freedom. I aslo know that there are many in the U.S. that thinks that "We're there trying to free those people, and this is how they treat us?" The war was never over freedom of the Iraqis. Greed, power and influence were the compelling reasons. WMD was just used to scare the crap out of those who know no better.
And for the remainder of the day, I will think of Rummy's famous quote from the start of the war, "Our soldiers drove into Bagdad in record time". ( or something like that). When did they first start keeping records? Too bad that they can't find their way out fast enough. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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Now there's a first.
I had to laugh when I read a post on this board from an English man who said that he believes that the real reason for the war in Iraq was over freedom. I aslo know that there are many in the U.S. that thinks that "We're there trying to free those people, and this is how they treat us?" The war was never over freedom of the Iraqis. Greed, power and influence were the compelling reasons. WMD was just used to scare the crap out of those who know no better. |
No I think trying to change the geo politics of the middle east were the real reasons.
And since the way the mideast was was a threat to the US , I would say it was more a case of the US hitting back.
Bathists , Khomeni lovers and Bin Laden followers have been at the war with the US for a while , the US just didn't really know to what extent it was before 9-11.
If mideast regimes , elites or clerics teach hate, fund Al Qaida , incite violence , plan terror , shoot at US planes they they are at war with the US.
They don't have a right to their war. They have to give up their war - all of it . And if they don't want to give up their war then the US is right to do almost anything and everything to force them to.
WMD was just an excuse but the US as did others did think Saddam had WMDs.
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| And for the remainder of the day, I will think of Rummy's famous quote from the start of the war, "Our soldiers drove into Bagdad in record time". ( or something like that). When did they first start keeping records? Too bad that they can't find their way out fast enough. |
The US doesn't have any intention of leaving , they would like to get out of Iraqi cities but the US is in Iraq for the miitary bases |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:42 am Post subject: |
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The plot thickens....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9459985/
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BASRA, Iraq - An Iraqi judge said on Saturday he had renewed arrest warrants for two British soldiers who were rescued from jail early this week by troops using armor to crash through the prison walls.
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rok_the-boat
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
The plot thickens....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9459985/
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BASRA, Iraq - An Iraqi judge said on Saturday he had renewed arrest warrants for two British soldiers who were rescued from jail early this week by troops using armor to crash through the prison walls.
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Not really, the 'agreement' they have says that UK soldiers do not fall under Iraqi law - they should have handed them over whether they were guilty of anything or not. Those warrants are worthless, and it makes you wonder where they found such a judge - can't be very experienced now can he? |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| The judge knows that there is nothing he can do. This was to make a point that the Iraqi justice system considers those two soldiers to be fugitives. Of course the OCCUPIERS are refusing to turn them over. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| so if Iraq's system of government isn't listening to the US no one can really claim that the new Iraq governments are puppets. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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True. The flip side is Americans and British asking why all their soldiers are getting killed- if it's not to install a Western-friendly government, then why be there?
If they're just going to turn against the coalition, why waste another second there?
IMO, this is why the US and the UK are going to fail in Iraq:
1) They set the bar too high: Victory in Iraq has been defined as installing a pro-Western secular democracy. They'll be very lucky to get more than 1 out of 3.
2) Soldiers are now dying for 'ideas' and the home-front won't stand for it. The folks back home can handle losing their son or daughter in a fight against an evil dictator, or a fight that prevents an evil dictator from unleashing some form of CBRN armageddon, or even a fight that brings 'democracy and justice' to the downtrodden. They probably aren't so keen to lose sons and daughters to such intangibles as 'preventing geo-strategic [edit: in]instability' or 'stabiliy of the oil market'.
Last edited by Bulsajo on Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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so if Iraq's system of government isn't listening to the US no one can really claim that the new Iraq governments are puppets.
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True enough. Then again, when the Brits start ramming tanks through prisons to enforce their will, the question of whether or not the government's a puppet becomes rather moot. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:10 am Post subject: |
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For what it's worth:
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| Judge Mudhafar says he is not convinced the two men are British - possibly because one of them was said to have been carrying a Canadian-made weapon - and they may not be entitled to immunity. |
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article314977.ece
The rest of that article is rather interesting as well. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| If mideast regimes , elites or clerics teach hate,....... they are at war with the US. |
Are you really prepared to go to war with almost every muslim country on earth, because that is precisely what happens in all of them. In fact, you haven't even got the nerve to stop Saudi Arabia funding their anti-Infidel Wahhabi mosques and Islamic centres in your own country, which teach the necessity of Jihad and the need of Islam to dominate the earth.
That is because even this neo-conservative government fails to understand that the problem is not Bin Laden, or terrorism itself, but the growth of fundamentalist Islam, which is very much the mainstream, and not, as people keep telling us, a twisted interpretation of an essentially peaceful religion. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
For what it's worth:
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| Judge Mudhafar says he is not convinced the two men are British - possibly because one of them was said to have been carrying a Canadian-made weapon - and they may not be entitled to immunity. |
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article314977.ece
The rest of that article is rather interesting as well. |
Doesn't that sound bizarre and illogical?
I don't think Canada has the edge in any form of firearm, so the only person who would be carrying one around would be someone who prefers it because they have trained extensively on it- I.E. a Canadian.
But Canadians are not in Iraq, or they're not supposed to be. Canada refused to participate in the coalition of the willing, and instead continued to provide ships for the blockade and army for Afghanistan. If it was found that the Canadian govt had secretly been sending JTF2 commandos to Iraq (or lending them to the UK on some sort of 'exchange' who then sent them to Iraq), there would be a holy shitstorm about this in Canada.
But if they ARE there secretly, would they be using Canadian kit? Aren't commandos smart enough to disguise themselves well? "Um, sir, maybe we should leave the Cdn stuff at home and use UK gear for this mission." To not do so would be a like a bank robber telling the teller his full name and address.
In other words it makes absolutely no sense for a Canadian weapon to be found in Basra.
It sounds like a red herring. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:26 am Post subject: |
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Military from commonwealth nations routinely second to the british military, especially if they are special forces. Its nothing unusual, there are stories of SAS in Vietnam, the brits weren't officially in Vietnam. They were probably there through the Aussies or NZ.
Its nothing strange about it. No issue, so to speak of. Just the usual business. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:34 am Post subject: |
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Military from commonwealth nations routinely second to the british military, especially if they are special forces. Its nothing unusual, there are stories of SAS in Vietnam, the brits weren't officially in Vietnam. They were probably there through the Aussies or NZ.
Its nothing strange about it. No issue, so to speak of. Just the usual business. |
Um, did you read my post?
It would most certainly NOT be the usual business if these guys were Cdn- it would be a political firestorm for the current Cdn govt. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:43 am Post subject: |
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In other words it makes absolutely no sense for a Canadian weapon to be found in Basra.
It sounds like a red herring.
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Like I said, for what it's worth.
Mostly, I just found it interesting that Canada was mentioned by the judge. Guess we'll wait to see what comes of this. |
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