Korean Job Discussion Forums

[BigBlackEquus]

This is an excellent read about doing business with Koreans. I especially appreciated the section which talked about the owner of a company "losing" the company and the money, but all the while he was embezzeling from everyone.

If you read this, you will have more of an understanding of the Korean mindset in business. This goes for hagwons, too.

http://www.escapeartist.com/efam19/Investing_in_Korea.html

Some tidbits:

"The Korean way is a very old way. It is predicated upon preserving the Korean traditional values and their old feudalistic and Confucian hierarchy. It is a Plutocracy. It is a classic example of Power and Control. Many of the young people openly demonstrate against it and are dealt with harshly. The majority of Korean people know what is going on, and guardedly express disgust with the chaebels. They all know that democracy in Korea is a facade. "


"If you start your own company in Korea, follow these rules:

1) Do not allow majority stock ownership by Koreans.
2) Do not appear to compete with government owned monopolies.
3) Do not compete with any of the major corporations (chaebels).
4) Do not make complicated financial entanglements with Korean banks.
5) Do not allow them to understand your technology.
6) Do not give them access to client lists and marketing data.
7) Do not share technical documents.
Do not sign your name on any piece of paper that is not a legal contract."


"A Korean business man spent four years developing a relationship with a Malaysian. The Malaysian finally agrees to a joint venture in Malaysia. But, he wants a contract with guarantees in the event of breach. He also wants to use modern accounting methods and have a means to keep track of the money. The Korean backs away making lame excuses. The real reason is that he did not want anything in writing, especially a contract. His remark was, "You must understand the Korean way. This is how we do business in Korea. You don't trust me." He openly displayed insult over the Malaysian distrust. It was an affront to his honor and reputation. Actually, he would have disappeared all of the cash and the Malaysian was smart enough to know what the Korean was about. The deal never happened for good reason."

[Summer Wine]

I loved this quote, it is so true in so many different ways.

[mishlert]

[Hanson]

There's a good bit on this in Michael Breen's book 'The Koreans' where Mr. Breen talks about a manager in an office asking his subordinate to write up a long report about something and submit it at the office meeting. Once the subordinate submitted the report in front of everyone at the meeting, the manager took a mere glance at it, and threw it on the floor in the office meeting, saying the subordinate's report was c.rap and that he was to do it over again.

The manager confided in Mr. Breen, saying that the report wasn't bad, but that the subordinates in his office needed to be reminded who was the boss. This one subordinate was the sacrificial lamb...

In another anecdote in this wonderful book, Mr. Breen talks about the size of offices in a journalism setting. It starts out with a foreigner coming into the office to be head of something-or-other, and getting a bigger office than the manager. Insulted (losing face), the manager did everything in his power to make sure that office-size situation was soon remedied.

[funplanet]

Fascinating read...thanks!

Never, ever trust a Korean in business...never

[Sleepy in Seoul]

Yes, he has an interesting take on the Korean business mindset. He also has an interesting view on some other things, such as:

[fusionbarnone]

Had a business friend who sold a truck to a Korean(not in Korea) . The Korean handed over a cheque,acquired the truck, "used" the truck for one solid day(banging it up in the process). Korean waited outside bank to intercept and prevent guy from cashing cheque.

A Korean lawyer was used in the solution finding process(K-boys choice) k-lawyer and k-boy chatted and giggled in hangul.

Non-korean biz guy somehow had to return cheque(???) got back now beat up truck. Chap not happy with his k-experience.

Heard a story about another business man who imports merchandise from korea. Apparently, he is doing so well he has had to increase orders to impressive amounts each time he places new ones. The Korean supplier is now insisting that he be introduced to the guy's business network/buyers. He told hom to F...off(nicely)

Knew a guy who was trying to learn hangul because he and his fiancee had planned to work and travel in Korea. They got invited to a party which happened to have a 32-year-old male korean student studying interior design.

The guy offered to be a friend(never offered a single korean lesson apparently). Began calling their home number, practically invited himself to dinner(without removing his shoes too).

Anyway, somehow the fiancee managed to "find" a teaching job in Seoul Korea. This bamboozled the girl's fiance because his own recruiter had trouble finding him a placement and wondered how she had gotten so lucky.

Girl told her fiancee that if he saw her off at the airport, she'd cry, and not get on the plane.

Within weeks, girl calls home asking for money because hogwon had her sharing an apartment with the director's grandma; couldn't go out without the third degree; was worried she'd starve without money as she hadn't been paid, etc. because they claimed she cannot teach and had no intention of paying her anything.

Turns out the K-friend "happened" to be in Korea too and the guy's fiancee happened to have his number. K-friend "rescues" guy's fiancee.

The guy back home being concerned about his fiancee's situation, calls the recruiter who got her the job(she emailed it to him during this time of strife). The recruiter happened to be a friend of the K-friend(who had "befriended" the couple) promptly told the guy that his fiancee had just become engaged to the K-guy. Guy is gobsmacked. Confronts his betrothed via email. She says she's doing it for him; he say's good riddance.

Guy's fiancee returns unannounced with rings on fingers to return some of his personal gear; marries k-guy; k-guy quits his study program; goes gambling; starts drinking and looking rough; and lives off his new waygook wifey;Ex-betrothed visits ex-fiancee offering boom-boom on call as the k-boy is hopeless in the sack; he refuses.

A scam from the start to get a retirement setup for his preacher dad and his ma via citizenship through mariage. Anything to get into a country without skills, wealth, or merit.

Hallelujah!

Once saw a study on how Samoan's taught their kids(not helpless babies) to think through not providing fo immmediate requests in order to foster spontaneous thinking on behalf of the infant.

How much of Korean behaviour is nature or nurture? Competitiveness bordering on winning at all costs; obliviousness to all else apart from immediate fulfillment of objective; an almost obsessive compulsive attention to detail; the instinct to form cooperatives or working relationships with almost any other korean in order to defeat non-korean persons or business'; a seemingly non-adherance to christian codes of condust(or any, for that matter) apart from a wispy allusion to a korean-way understood only by koreans and when confronted, the usual reply is, "you don't understand koreans".

Personally, I think second guessing Koreans is good training in reducing one's naivette score and improving upon one's ability to survive in business generally and life. How they can "manage" to learn to think this way would be a fascinating study as it seems entrenched in the modus-thought-operandi of Koreans generally(I'm generalizing myself by stating this).

Perhaps our own thinking is at variance to the thought processes of worlds outside our own due to the govt. education process of dumbing down and reliance/respect for authority, and asthetic ideologies, have worked too well(according to some home-schooling organizations).

Had my accountant on my back about biz opportunities in ROK. It's risky for many if EFL-law's estimate of off-shore companies pending court cases concerning breach of contract are accurate(60%+).

The information on this post in expecting business to transpire in Korea is exceptional and a must read/study/commit to muscle-memory. Must read that book too.

[peppermint]

[On the other hand]

Peppermint wrote:

[shakuhachi]

[chiaa]

[Paji eh Wong]

[Sooke]

[On the other hand]

[fusionbarnone]

I sort of differentiate between repect for authority and respect for rule of law. I think Koreans have a higher respect for authority than we do.

I don't want to learn to think like this. I find it incredibly self defeating.


Paji, I agree with you about respecting and differentiating between respect for authority and respect for rule of law. I think we do (sometimes to our detriment) and of course the majority of koreans would also. My focus is on those(the larcenously inclined) who brazenly discount our definition of authority and it's focus on equal fairness/representation as opposed with their own system apparently biased towards outsiders(there are innumerable newspaper articles available).

Where they say back in the west that "possession is 99% of the law", we have at least the legal process to remedy unfair practices. However, many ESLers, business people have found settling disputes or recieving money owed whilst in the ROK, is not easy. Predicting possibilities and remedies need to become as natural as breathing if success in all we aspire to along with an absence of outside intrusions are to be expected.

I have access to a Korean-American Private investigator over in the US. Whose job, is to ferret out the dishonest Koreans while using English names embezzel and flee to the ROK(to hide amongst 20 million other Kims, etc) when sought by authorities/business partners. Can't remember the site but research for crimes-per-country place Korea in the top 5 for crimes involving money and fraud.

I agree with you on not wanting to learn to think like this too(my fiancee tells me this often in China) but the occurences that pan out are finally becoming too predictable, and she is really hating it here at the moment and cannot wait to leave China and return to Korea(where we have a lot of sincere friends)/Australia/USA/New Zealand. She also cannot wait to return to places where "friendly" chats are not conducted with an info gathering agenda. And where friendships are ALL relationships are soaked with pecuniary motives(ask Travel Zen about this). Life in this respect can become very lonely eventually. Korea has more heart.

The point I was trying to make in my highly convoluted post was that visitors to any host culture need realize our cultural norms cannot be superimposed upon another in order to derive a semblance of understanding. As Lester Frank Ward(1897) observered "...the result desired by the state is a wholly different one than that desired by parents, guardians, and pupils". Thus, our education has never been geared toward developing an autonomous and totally independent individual. We need to be observant in our daily meanderings, vigilant in our business concerns, and perhaps spend more time developing/learning to play better chess.

I didn't want to think(had to learn) like this either. I don't like the "reality"(acknowledging the, "cultural differences";I understand Korea enough to do business in it now after three years) after being in China to learn about chinese people, their strategies, (including myself in the process) translates into I, don't expect to lose tens of millions of dollars like many other companies that come here(including many koreans, surprise, surprise).

It is my hope that westerners in Korea(and Asia)can have a good experience overall and gain the most positively from it. I don't find it self-defeating in the least. Living and learning to win rocks.