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fiveeagles

Joined: 19 May 2005 Location: Vancouver
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:51 am Post subject: Court case may determine how evolution is taught in US |
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A landmark legal trial begins on Monday that could determine how the theory of evolution - one of the basic tenets of modern science - is taught in US schools.
In the town of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, 11 parents of children who already attend the nearby Dover High school or who will in future, together with the American Civil Liberties Union, are suing the Dover Area School District for voting in new rules that will encourage children to consider alternatives to evolution such as ��intelligent design�� (ID).
The court��s verdict will only bind schools within the Dover district, but could influence how schools teach evolution across the country, says Witold Walczak, a lawyer for the ACLU of Pennsylvania based in Pittsburgh, who will represent the parents.
��If we lose this case, I suspect it will send a green light to many school districts across the country that it is okay to teach ID,�� he says. ��If we win, hopefully it will put a break on what we view as a religious concept.��
Intelligent agent
ID is the controversial assertion that an intelligent agent rather than an undirected process such as evolution is responsible for certain features of the universe and living things.
The parents claim the school board violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment by creating new teaching requirements at the end of 2004 that cast doubt on evolution, introduce students to ID and encourage them to read anti-evolutionary, pro-ID literature. The First Amendment prohibits teaching that is religiously motivated, or has the effect of advancing religion.
The debate over ID, an idea that opponents call ��camouflaged creationism��, has been raging since the publication in 1989 of a book called Of Pandas and People, which introduced the concept. The trial, known as ��Kitzmiller-Dover�� after one of the parents Tammy Kitzmiller, will be the first to expose ID to the scrutiny of a court.
It will hinge on whether ID is a respectable scientific theory, or a religious belief that masquerades as science to sidestep a 1987 Supreme Court ruling that outlawed the teaching of creationism in schools.
Latest incarnation
The plaintiffs will argue that it is the latter. ��There is so much evidence that this is just the latest incarnation of creationism,�� says Walczak. He points to early drafts of Of Pandas and People, written before 1987. ��It��s identical except for where it says creationism it now says intelligent design.��
This view is shared by the mainstream science community. Alan Leshner, CEO of the American Association for the Advancement of Science based in Washington DC and publisher of the journal Science, says: ��ID was an effort to correct the legal problems of creation science.��
It will be up to the defence to prove that ID is in fact a scientific concept that has a primarily secular purpose and a secular effect on students.
One expert witness for the defence will be Michael Behe, a scientist at Lehigh University in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, and an outspoken ID proponent. He declined to comment when contacted by New Scientist because of his involvement in the trial, but he promotes ID as a scientific theory.
Reasonable explanation
In July 2005, he told New Scientist that because some systems cannot function properly without all their components, they could not evolve by the accumulation of chance mutations. The only reasonable explanation is ID, he asserted.
The Dover High School board of directors would not comment and their legal defence team did not contact New Scientist in time for this story.
There will be no jury because the case is about interpreting the constitution, and although the judge��s decision will only be binding in Dover, either side could appeal. An appellate court decision would apply in four states - Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware and the Virgin Islands.
If that decision was also appealed, the trial could move to a Supreme Court, whose verdict would apply to the whole nation, says Walczak.
Trial time line
• Monday 26th September 2005: opening statements
• First week: testimony from plaintiffs�� expert witnesses, including scientists Kenneth Miller of Brown University, Robert Pennock of Michigan State University and Barbara Forrest of Southeastern Louisiana University, followed by John Haught a theologian at Georgetown University
• Next two to three weeks: continuation of plaintiffs�� case - more expert witnesses including Brian Alters at Harvard University and Kevin Padian at the University of California, Berkeley.
• Last two to three weeks: defence��s case, including expert witnesses such as scientists Michael Behe, Scott Minnich of the University of Idaho and Warren Nord of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Also, Dick Carpenter of US Evangelical Christian group Focus on the Family and sociologist Steve Fuller of the University of Warwick, UK.
• Early November: closing arguments
• Early December: Judge��s verdict |
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peppermint

Joined: 13 May 2003 Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:17 am Post subject: |
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The possibility of ID being taught as a valid theory in American schools disturbs me more than most of the news I've heard out of the US recently.
What's next? Will they start challenging Gallileo's ideas on the solar system? |
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VanIslander

Joined: 18 Aug 2003 Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:34 am Post subject: Re: Court case may determine how evolution is taught in US |
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fiveeagles wrote: |
A landmark legal trial begins on Monday that could determine how the theory of evolution - one of the basic tenets of modern science - is taught in US schools. |
First, it's not a binding precedent. It just might be a "green light" for other independent school districts to follow if they so wish. That's a minor, indirect, weak consequence in and of itself.
Second, the theory of evolution is NOT "one of the basic tenets of modern science", at least not as a theory of origins. Relatively few areas would be affected by a contrary theory of intelligent design, especially if coupled with a naturalistic theory of development ("divine origin but natural development"- "God got the ball rolling").
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...together with the American Civil Liberties Union, are suing the Dover Area School District for voting in new rules that will encourage children to consider alternatives to evolution such as ��intelligent design�� (ID). |
Thirdly, this is just wrong. Civil libertarians should - on principle - not support the limitation of theories or perspectives; they should be a beacon of tolerance and inclusiveness. The civil liberties lawyer said: ��If we win, hopefully it will put a break on what we view as a religious concept.�� This shows how even civil libertarians cannot stand on principle 24/7 but slip back into the same kind of narrow-mindedness as those they petition against. Some have said the civil liberties movement is filled with anti-religious sentiments - which is fine - as long as it doesn't cloud their judgement. But what interest does civil liberties has in stopping ID as a theory? perhaps the old fear that it'll be an intolerant force that will eventually supplant evolution (a struggle in itself of neutral interest to civil liberty - unless one takes a middle-of-the-road approach and believes competing theories of origin be included).
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It will hinge on whether ID is a respectable scientific theory, or a religious belief that masquerades as science to sidestep a 1987 Supreme Court ruling that outlawed the teaching of creationism in schools. |
So the civil liberties union has an inherent interest in this?
Bah, ... this whole topic should be on the "Current Events" forum.
Mods, please move. |
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Tiger Beer

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:51 am Post subject: |
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Whatever they teach seems completely irrelevant.
Teaching evolutionism or even the communist ideologies of God doesn't exist (i.e. the Soviet Union).. still doesn't have any effect whatsoever on people's religious beliefs.. either they believe it or they don't..
One hour of a 'evolution' class isn't going to seriously disrupt anyone's religious beliefs.. they'll still figure out a way to believe whatever it is they believe regardless of an hour of their life being taught something contradictory.
Guess what.. get use to the rest of their lives acquiring bits of 'knowledge'.. I hear all kinds of weird things being taught in all kinds of places all the time that I don't believe.
Regarding ID (Intelligent Design).. it does sound like the creationists are back to work again.. who cares.. put them both side-by-side.. Evolution vs. ID (hey, ID, nice name.. could work well for Jewish, Muslim, Buudhish, Hindu and all the others). |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Location: Next to a River
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Does it have to be an either/or argument for evolution? |
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Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:24 am Post subject: |
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All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster! |
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Alias

Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:32 am Post subject: |
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peppermint wrote: |
The possibility of ID being taught as a valid theory in American schools disturbs me more than most of the news I've heard out of the US recently.
What's next? Will they start challenging Gallileo's ideas on the solar system? |
My guess is that events of the Bible should be taught has historical fact ie; Noah's Ark, the Resurrection. |
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fiveeagles

Joined: 19 May 2005 Location: Vancouver
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:05 am Post subject: |
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VI, great post!!
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One hour of a 'evolution' class isn't going to seriously disrupt anyone's religious beliefs.. they'll still figure out a way to believe whatever it is they believe regardless of an hour of their life being taught something contradictory. |
Macro evolution is a religion is in itself, with it's high priests being it's professors. It takes great faith to believe that the universe came from nothing. It takes greater faith to believe that there was a transition from inorganic to organic. Where's the evidence? The gaps within this theory are staggering. So much so, that it takes greater faith to believe in macro evolution than that of ID. However, many professors have usurped the faith of new students and converted them into the school of atheism. I know, I was one of the unsuspecting. (Of course booze and girls had it's part to play too. )
The drop off rate of Christianity from high school to university is staggering. I think the percentage of Christians entering university is around 35 percent. Those leaving university becomes 10 percent.
ID is a theory in itself, saying that the origins and the universe was created by a Creater. It opens up the possiblity that there is a supernatural and looks at how the environment is affected by our choices. I think many people are scared of the fact that the deepest truth is not found in the metaphysical, but in the fact that some Intelligent Energy governs it. No longer can we trust in ourselves for truth, but it has to come through an outside entity. People don't want to give up control. Thus why the irrational and hypocritical actions of this case.
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Thirdly, this is just wrong. Civil libertarians should - on principle - not support the limitation of theories or perspectives; they should be a beacon of tolerance and inclusiveness. |
Last edited by fiveeagles on Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:11 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Tiger Beer

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:09 am Post subject: |
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fiveeagles wrote: |
The drop off rate of Christianity from high school to university is staggering. I think the percentage of Christians entering university is around 35 percent. Those leaving is like 10 percent. |
Those numbers won't change any regardless of whats taught in one day during a science class. |
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fiveeagles

Joined: 19 May 2005 Location: Vancouver
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:27 am Post subject: |
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It's more than one day. It is about a conceptional change. If the ID theory is thought of as a credible belief, than this will change the whole paradygm in what we see through.
Many people look at their teachers as role models and someone to be respected. If all of a sudden, those who believe in ID can come out of the closet and tell their students that they believe. IT will be very big.
That's why it is being so opposed. |
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Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:35 am Post subject: |
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fiveeagles wrote: |
If the ID theory is thought of as a credible belief
those who believe in ID can come out of the closet |
Exactly. It's being opposed in science class because it's not science. Teach it in religion classes. Along with Hindu, Buddhist, and Native American beliefs about the creation of the world. Personally I like the Norse version.
Creationists always seem to get hung up about Darwin. But he isn't the final word on Evolution as a theory.

Last edited by Bulsajo on Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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hypnotist

Joined: 04 Dec 2004 Location: I wish I were a sock
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:37 am Post subject: |
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I don't see any problem with ID being a possibility - but to say it's a theory or science is bunk. Keep it to Religious Studies lessons.
The Guardian covers this quite well. This sums up my opinions on the subject. This is an interesting interview with Michael Bede, and this is just interesting. |
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Dan The Chainsawman

Joined: 05 May 2005
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:16 am Post subject: |
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Someone remind me how many kids can't read and write properly on completion of High School?
So now we are tossing tax dollars around like a drunken sailor worrying about ID?
Christ talk about screwed up priorities.
Reading 'riting and 'rithmatic is what American children need, not spoon feed puddles of politically pandered crap. |
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cionanian-cro
Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:06 am Post subject: |
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fiveeagles wrote: |
Macro evolution is a religion is in itself, with it's high priests being it's professors. It takes great faith to believe that the universe came from nothing. It takes greater faith to believe that there was a transition from inorganic to organic. Where's the evidence? The gaps within this theory are staggering. So much so, that it takes greater faith to believe in macro evolution than that of ID. However, many professors have usurped the faith of new students and converted them into the school of atheism. I know, I was one of the unsuspecting. (Of course booze and girls had it's part to play too. ) |
"Macro evolution" is NOT a religion in any sense of the word.
Nor is "macro-evolution" an anti-religion. "Macro evolution" does not posit there there is no God.
"Macro evolution" does not believe that the universe came from nothing.
You say the gaps in macro-evolution are staggering. For there to be gaps at all, there has to be evidence. If there is no evidence, there can be no gaps. I hope you would agree with me at least as far as to say there is SOME evidence for macro evolution. (I would say it's overwhelming, but all I want to hear from you is that there is SOME). Now then: is there any evidence for ID beyond your personal opinion of what is and is not unlikely?
Some > None.
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ID is a theory in itself, saying that the origins and the universe was created by a Creater. |
ID is not a theory.
ID is a hypothesis.
Understand the distinction.
For ID to rise to the level of a theory, it's gonna need some evidence.
Sentences containing the words "what are the odds" are not evidence.
ID is currently an issue of faith, not a theory. |
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Swiss James

Joined: 26 Nov 2003 Location: Shanghai
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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one of the most shocking things I ever read on Dave's ESL was when a US High School Biology teacher mentioned that she "just didn't buy" evolution and was more comfortable teaching ID.
The whole issue is terrifying to me. |
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