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Metsuke
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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 Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:06 pm Post subject: Making a PC purchase... need some help with the tech stuff. |
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Hi all,
I've been lurking around the tech forum for a bit now, and have already learned a whole lot. I've been in Korea for about 6 months now, and am going insane with no home PC. So I've decided to bite the bullet and make a purchase. But... I need a bit of help, and heres why.
As I've been shopping around Daegu in the computer district I've noticed two very different trends... 1) Pre made systems, and 2) You pick what you want and we will build it for you. I'm thinking I want to opt for option number two, but I dont' know much about the tech part of what to tell them to put in my computer.
My use of the computer will be pretty much for web surfing, and multi media applications. Downloading and playing music, and video. Maybe some game play, but I plan to pick up a XBOX 360 this Christmas so the game aspect on the PC is not huge. I want to get a DVD RW so I can burn movies, and play them on my system on the TV. I'm thinking my budget is around 800,000 won... and I'm not to worried about getting a monitor with the deal... I have a buddy who is leaving in 3 weeks who is going to hook me up with his old 19 incher.
From what I have researched so far this is what I think I need... but please chime in if you have any different suggestions...
-Pentium 4, maybe with hyperthreading. (I'm not sure what it is to be honest).
-1 GB Ram
-Minimum 120 GB HD
-DVD RW
And after that I'm totatally clueless... I dont' know what else I need, what sound or video card to get, or what computer box/shell to get. So I need a little help on what I can get, model numbers or whatever, and prices. I know there are sites out there where I can order computer parts, but I'm a bit embarrassed to say my hangul reading ability is very poor at the moment... so I can't really conduct my own research on the Korean websites, or the ones that make mention to Yongsan.
The store I found that I felt pretty good about is called the PC Zone,and as I mentioned before is located in Daegu... http://www.ipczone.co.kr/ . This is the place that would build the computer for me.
Any and all help is very much appreciated. I mean I know I could go and get a premade computer bundle... but something is telling me I can get a better machine if I have it made custom.
Thanks all in advance! |
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Wrench
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| Whats the purpose of the PC? |
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Metsuke
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Whats the purpose of the PC? |
Hi Wrench,
Thought I touched on this before, but maybe I was not clear. I'm looking to make use of the computer for web browsing, downloading music and video, burning DVD's, managing my digital pictures... things like that. Perhaps some light word processing but not much. I want it to be a fairly good system, and for it to runs smooth and fast.
Maybe another good was to ask for help is this.
What system would you build with the above criteria in mind, witha budget of 800,000 won. Please specify product component names, and prices! 
Thanks again. |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| I would say you could buy a pre-fab and add the extra RAM you want for less than 550,000 won and it would do what you need. Monitor not included. You can get a good 17" LCD monitor for less than 300,000 and a 19" LCD for 350,000+ |
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Wrench
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah you don't need much for web browsing and simple stuff. The p4 sounds pretty good. Get at least 512 memory, maybe even more. Prefabs sound alright as well. |
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muggie2dammit
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Location: Ilsan, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:06 am Post subject: Re: Making a PC purchase... need some help with the tech stu |
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| Metsuke wrote: |
Hi all,
I've been lurking around the tech forum for a bit now, and have already learned a whole lot. I've been in Korea for about 6 months now, and am going insane with no home PC. So I've decided to bite the bullet and make a purchase. But... I need a bit of help, and heres why.
-Pentium 4, maybe with hyperthreading. (I'm not sure what it is to be honest).
-1 GB Ram
-Minimum 120 GB HD
-DVD RW
The store I found that I felt pretty good about is called the PC Zone,and as I mentioned before is located in Daegu... http://www.ipczone.co.kr/ . This is the place that would build the computer for me.
Any and all help is very much appreciated. I mean I know I could go and get a premade computer bundle... but something is telling me I can get a better machine if I have it made custom.
Thanks all in advance! |
Okay. First up, the prebuilt PCs that PCZone offers are pretty sucky. They have all the big numbers in the obvious places, and cut corners everywhere else. A pre-built PC would be easy, but unless you add a few extras, that dog just won't bark.
They do have almost all the parts you need to build a good system though, so they're not totally useless. Keep in mind that you may need to purchase an English copy of Windows, so keep that in mind when doing your budgets. Some places offer pirate copies of Windows - I'll not comment on whether this is a good idea or not.
Now, to address some of your points/ideas:
Hyperthreading is a very useful feature of the P4 processors that have it. It basically allows more programs to be running at once without slowdown. Not perfect, but useful.
1GB of RAM is great. Most of the things you will be doing won't need more than 512MB though. Still, more is better. The PCZone prebuilts suck in this area, some of them having a mere 256MB, scarcely enough to get WinXP running well.
Minimum 120GB Hard drive. Good plan. This is where most of the PCZone prebuilt systems suck again, withy many having 80GB. Too small these days, especially with what you want to do with the system. I'd go further - a 200GB hard drive isn't _that_ much more expensive.
A DVD-R/W is just so useful. I have one myself, and have used it for backing up my digital pics and more inportant documents, not to mention making copies of the disks that I just _don't_ want to lose due to day-to-day damage and scratching.
Other things to look at:
Graphics. Almost all prebuilts try to get along with integrated graphics (and the Intel integrated graphics really truly sucks) or else a tiny little graphics card that's screaming along at full speed trying to keep up with things that a better card can do while idling.
Motherboard. A lot of budget prebuilt system motherboards were made of components supplied by the lowest bidder, and assembled by half-trained monkeys. If they specify the manufacturer of the motherboard, not just the chipset, then that manufacturer has their reputation on the line, and it's more likely to work better.
Power supply. Find out what power supply any system you want will need to work at full power. Add 20%, and that's pretty much where you set your minimum power supply rating. Personally, I start at 400W power supplies and go up. Excess power capacity generally means cleaner, more reliable power. Running your system at the limits is almost the same as trying to operate a computer during a brownout - without adequate power _all_ of the time, the system can crash without warning, and knowing Murphy's Law, it'll do it at the worst time.
I'll have a look through what PCZone has again, but my thinking is running along the same lines - get custom-built, or else see if they'll upgrade components from one of their prebuilts to your specifications.
Muggie2 |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:25 am Post subject: Re: Making a PC purchase... need some help with the tech stu |
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| muggie2dammit wrote: |
| Graphics. Almost all prebuilts try to get along with integrated graphics (and the Intel integrated graphics really truly sucks) or else a tiny little graphics card that's screaming along at full speed trying to keep up with things that a better card can do while idling. |
I have never used the older intergrated chipsets in a machine I own, but in a test machine I made last month running the 945G chipset with a 2.8GHz Celeron appears to update the screen just as fast as my main work machine which has an ATI X700 and 3.2GHz P4.
Unless a person is planning on playing newer 3D games on it, the 945G chipset will work just fine for every day activities. And at costing about a couple dollars more than a regular 945 chipset, it's certainly cheaper than any graphic card on the market which can be added later if a person decides they really want to start playing newer 3D games.
| Quote: |
| Motherboard. A lot of budget prebuilt system motherboards were made of components supplied by the lowest bidder, and assembled by half-trained monkeys. If they specify the manufacturer of the motherboard, not just the chipset, then that manufacturer has their reputation on the line, and it's more likely to work better. |
I don't think you'll find anyone who doesn't make their products from the lowest possible bidder when buy commodities. Look at the fiasco a couple years back when a cheap Chinese supplier dumped faulty capacitors in Taiwan. Damn near every Taiwanese motherboard made from everyone died in the months that follow.
Brand name is more important in establishing warranty and servicing along with supporting features (such as in incremental overclocking rather than preset settings) rather than a judgement of quality. For example, during the last two years I've bought two ASUS motherboards and they've both developed issues (one having an IDE jack die and murder a hard drive, the other having an AGP port refuse to go above 4x without generating crashes).
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| Power supply. Find out what power supply any system you want will need to work at full power. Add 20%, and that's pretty much where you set your minimum power supply rating. Personally, I start at 400W power supplies and go up. Excess power capacity generally means cleaner, more reliable power. Running your system at the limits is almost the same as trying to operate a computer during a brownout - without adequate power _all_ of the time, the system can crash without warning, and knowing Murphy's Law, it'll do it at the worst time. |
A better solution would to go with a cheaper model of lower power with a focus on the noise level. A non-gaming machine is unlikely to require more than 200W ever (even less so with an on-board graphic chipset), so going with a mainstay 300W or 350W silent power supply would be a better option.
I run a server with twelve drives in it and a 3GHz P4 on a 350W with no issues, for example. 400W, while sexy, is simply not a requirement in a non-gaming system.
In pricing out cheap computers, I built a 2.8GHz Celeron, 512GB RAM, etc, for under 400,000 Won. And that was with a Gigabyte motherboard which was 150,000 alone. CPU was 90,000. Ram was 40,000. Case and power was 50,000. If I had gone with a Korean brand X motherboard, I could have came in at under 300,000 for a machine that would do anything but play modern games well. |
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BigBlackEquus
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Lotte controls Asia with bad chocolate!
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:51 am Post subject: |
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Here is my friend's stab at it. He likes computers, so I will just let him type:
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 640, 3.2Ghz (don't go any less)* = 250,000
Mainboard: GIGABYTE GA-8I945G-MF = 135,000
Ram: 1 Gig Corsair DDR2 5400: 115,000
HD 1: Western Digital 36Gig 10k RPM SATA drive for windows/programs = 108,000
HD 2: Seagate 200GB 7200 RPM SATA = 95,000
LG CD and DVD+/- burner = 50,000
Floppy disk: 10,000
Case: 30,000
Power Supply: Antec Smart 2.0 350 SATA = 66,000
Total: 859,000 or about 900,000 plus fans and misc. crap
This system runs off of the Intel 950GMA on-board graphics, which are more than sufficient for now, unless you are big into games. You can add a graphics card later.
There is a Firewire port on the board. A must if you plan to input video.
* Keeping the Multimedia in mind, this system is Intel at 3.2 with Hyperthreading. Do not go lower than 3.2 Ghz. Just don't. With HDTV and stuff looming, you need above 3.0 Intel or above 3200 in the AMD ranks (AMD playback of HDTV is choppy unless above 3200 speed). Hyperthreading works well with many multi-media apps out there.
You might question me advising two hard drives. Not a neccessity, but it would speed your machine up to have the smaller 10,000 RPM drive holding your Windows files/programs, and the larger 7,200 for your movies, video, .mp3, etc. Also excellent for future HD video, which may finally bust out in the next few years. See: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/ContentShowcase.aspx
Don't worry about dual-channel ram for now. 1 Gig of the DDR-2 will do nicely. Latency levels of DDR2 are catching up.
He also says that you might also want a second CD/DVD drive for playback, and the above one for burning, if you want to copy DVDs from the rental store. Just makes it easier.
This system is sans monitor, as you mentioned would be an excellent buy which would be excellent for years to come. You could upgrade to dual-core one day, as well. Although I'm not recommending Intel dual-core chips at this point. AMD would be fine, but that puts you out of price range by another big chunk of change, and am not sure the lower end dual-core chips would run HDTV well (each side could be clocked too low). But you can always upgrade later, with this set-up!
No operating system in this, but this is Korea, so................. |
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muggie2dammit
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Location: Ilsan, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Making a PC purchase... need some help with the tech stu |
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| Gord wrote: |
I have never used the older intergrated chipsets in a machine I own, but in a test machine I made last month running the 945G chipset with a 2.8GHz Celeron appears to update the screen just as fast as my main work machine which has an ATI X700 and 3.2GHz P4.
reputation on the line, and it's more likely to work better. |
Even older games like Diablo2 didn't work smoothly on the Intel integrated graphics chipsets I tried. Worked better on the nForce2 IGP, but still not as well as I'd have liked. And as for some of the encoded movies I saw, shit, I'd always thought that the CPU processing speed was the biggest problem, but for the Intel Extreme Graphics2 it seemed that the graphics just couldn't keep up.
| Quote: |
| I don't think you'll find anyone who doesn't make their products from the lowest possible bidder when buy commodities. Look at the fiasco a couple years back when a cheap Chinese supplier dumped faulty capacitors in Taiwan. Damn near every Taiwanese motherboard made from everyone died in the months that follow. |
Yeah, I remember the fallout from that. I feel a lot more confident with Japanese capacitors.
| Quote: |
A better solution would to go with a cheaper model of lower power with a focus on the noise level. A non-gaming machine is unlikely to require more than 200W ever (even less so with an on-board graphic chipset), so going with a mainstay 300W or 350W silent power supply would be a better option.
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Must be that my experience is a little different from yours. Still, I always managed to get along with 300W until a couple of years ago, but with the more modern systems that just isn't enough. Not so much that the units can't cope with the power demands per se, it's that so many of them can't deliver power within strict voltage limits on particular lines when the demand peaks. I've seen worse than that though - like 300W units that popped when first turned on, even though the system demands were well within supposed tolerances. Then you multiply the claimed amperage numbers by the voltage and realise that their supposed 300W unit should be rated at 520W to be able to live up to its claims. And then, searching the 'net (but not in any of the datasheets) you read that the maximum wattage for the 3.3V and 5V lines combined is only 150W, and you exceeded that a little. And the maximum for the 12V line is limited to less than 11A, even though it claims 20A. Personally, I do the numbers first, and make sure that the power supply I want *really* has the ability to supply the power I want. Preferably quietly.
So many people I've seen who have computer problems look at everything else first, and never think to question the ability of the power supply to deliver the power. |
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hypnotist
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Location: I wish I were a sock
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Making a PC purchase... need some help with the tech stu |
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| muggie2dammit wrote: |
So many people I've seen who have computer problems look at everything else first, and never think to question the ability of the power supply to deliver the power. |
This is utterly true, but do remember you can't always trust the headline wattage figures when buying PSUs.
A *good quality* 300W PSU would do for most people - and will often outperform a so-called 400W no-name PSU.
There's a good discussion of this here (see the blue box), but the whole article (though a little out of date) is worth reading. |
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muggie2dammit
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Location: Ilsan, Korea
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:36 am Post subject: Re: Making a PC purchase... need some help with the tech stu |
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| hypnotist wrote: |
| muggie2dammit wrote: |
So many people I've seen who have computer problems look at everything else first, and never think to question the ability of the power supply to deliver the power. |
A *good quality* 300W PSU would do for most people - and will often outperform a so-called 400W no-name PSU.
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Find out if the wattage their claiming is peak or sustained. If it's sustained, then it's good. If it's peak, then you have to subtract 25% or more from the claimed numbers for sustained performance. And some of the brand name PSUs fall prey to this problem too - such as the Enermax 565 and similar ones. There are some good "no-name" power supplies, such as Simbadda and Evertop. Do your homework on the numbers, and if they stack up, you get the PSU.
Muggie2 |
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keninseoul
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:01 pm Post subject: pick n pack |
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| Quote: |
| I touched on this before, but maybe I was not clear. I'm looking to make use of the computer for web browsing, downloading music and video, burning DVD's, managing my digital pictures... things like that. Perhaps some light word processing but not much. I want it to be a fairly good system, and for it to runs smooth and fast. |
I have an old P-3 with just 256+128 old SDRAM I use for downloading movies (yes, it runs XP). Good enough for browsing and word-processing. Soooooo you have a lot of latitude. In another words, don't sweat it.
AMD works just fine and is cheaper - easier to find than ever before (in Korea)
512MBRam is fine for your needs - 3200 is fine. Easy to add, afterwards.
get a Name brand video card and sound card - check out the reviews on zdnet.com and cnet.com. find what's good and is your price range, and make a list with options. A good video card makes a big difference. I hop around, but ATI(video) and Creative(sound) are solid choices. Remember, since your needs are modest, you should find that a 'budget' card is quite acceptable. After, make sure you check the net for the latest drivers.
a good motherboard is always a good idea; someone mentioned Gigabyte. I always go with ASUS.
I use a Simbadda power supply; 300W and found it's decent enough to run 1.5 GB RAM, two hard-drives, and two CD-(burners).
Getting a decent PC case/cabinet is harder! Lot's of crap made of flimsy - "not good enough for a beer can" stuff out there. Make sure the USB ports are in the front. So with a Reset switch. Get them to install an extra fan or two; with the cabling neatly tucked out of the air-flow. |
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Metsuke
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:03 am Post subject: |
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Update...
Ok... I have two options at this point...
#1) This is from a store, standard package deal that they offer.
CPU: P4 3.0E
MB: Intel 865PE
RAM: 1GB DDR (Dual)
HD: 120GB (7200rpm)
VGA: Geforce 5700 256M
ODD: Combo CD RW
No OS, but I will provide XP Pro in English.
No other details as of yet as this is off a sheet, no keyboard or mouse included,...
Price: 680,000 won
#2) This is from our schools in house computer guy who I asked for help. He offered to build a system for me with similar specs. This guy works for our school full time, and is literally down the hall from me every day. He said he would hook me up with a 3 year warranty. However his english is not very good...
CPU: P4 3.0 with hyperthreading
MB: Intel 865PE
RAM: 1GB DDR Dual
HD: 120GB (7200rpm)
VGA: ATI Radeon X300
ODD: Combo DVD RW
He will provide OS English XP Pro, plus Microsoft office, and a whole bunch of other software goodies. He has access to everything our school has access to. He said he would pitch in the mouse and keyboard in the deal...standard SAMSUNG type stuff.
Price: 780,000 won.
I need some feed back ASAP. Our computer guy originally offered to go downtown with me to help... then said he would build the system for me. Is the combo DVD RW really bumb the price up that much? Need some help here! I told him I would think about it....
Thanks in advance... |
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Pangit
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Location: Puet mo.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Assuming those are the same processors (aren't they? I can't figure out their naming schemes any more), I'd go with the first option (but only if it's got hyper-threading, so make sure about that). I prefer GeForce video cards, and you can try to get the store to swap out the optical drive for a DVD-writer combo drive (which truly isn't a big price difference - you can get one for around 64k from pc.danawa.com). |
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kprrok
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Location: KC
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Metsuke wrote: |
| MB: Intel 865PE |
Those aren't Motherboards. Those are chipsets. Find out what motherboard they are using. ASUS? AsRock? Chaintech? etc.
Also, If I recall correctly, the GeForce 5700 isn't a very good card. I've got an X300, and it works just fine and dandy for what I use it for. It's not going to run the upper-level games out now, but neither would the 5700 I believe.
A Combo drive is a DVD-ROM/CD-RW, so I believe both would be the same. I'd ask for a DVD+-RW which does everything. They're not much more, as mentioned above, maybe an extra 20.000 or so.
I'd take Option 2. Samsung isn't bad for the peripherals, and the English software (Office) is expensive to get.
KPRROK |
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