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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
I was going to avoid comment on this thread, but I do feel I'm integrally a part of this.
I'll start by saying that my posts are in no way coordinated with EFLTrainer's or the Bobster's. In particular, while the Bobster and I tend to agree on many issues, we are largely incommunicado and there are threads where we disagree.
I say this for 2 reasons:
1) Gopher took it upon himself to accuse one or the other of us of being a sock. We're not.
2) EFLTrainer's statements are his own. Again, I would speculate that many of our opinions concur, but I'm making my own comments here, not in defense of EFL.
Whether Gopher leaves or stays is beside the point. Good luck either way, Gopher.
Either way, let there be no one suggesting they are more objective than others.
That's assinine.
Support your point. Fine. Make it the best supported possible. Excellent.
Realize the difference between fact and opinion.
Understand that when you're dealing in opinions, they are just that.
Propaganda?
Michael Moore?
Criticizing Bush?
Criticizing America?
Criticizing Columbus?
Criticizing people who criticize Bush?
Criticizing "the Left"?
Criticizing "the Right"?
Criticizing anyone as less-educated than you are.
And look at Gopher's own citations.
Invariably, he is either
A) Calling someone a bozo.
or
B) Explaining how someone else is wrong because, in his opinion, they have some other sinister purpose which he takes it upon himself to define.
Heaps of references, indeed.
Proving something? No.
Case in point: Bush appointed a know-nothing crony to head FEMA.
Gopher response: It's a common thing. Look at Bobby Kennedy.
Before he even had his facts straight, Gopher was deeming Bush criticism "a cheap shot".
Thank you for that opinion.
That's all. |
What he said. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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Just for the record Gopher voted for Gore and then Kerry. He never voted for Bush even once. ( I only voted for Bush one time the second time)
If you people have a problem with his politics then you don't only have a problem w/ conservatives you can't deal with moderates or even liberal moderates .
But on this board well ( as another poster said ) too many of you "drank the kool aid and live in Trotsky land" .
As I have said I really hope the Democratic party follows Michael Moore, and those even more radical at counterpunch and not those like Gopher that way republicans have a slam dunk victory in 2008.
Why they are at it why don't you'll follow the International Action Center http://www.iacenter.org/ or http://www.internationalanswer.org/ for good measure?
Liberals are just silly , moonbats are just sinister.
Whatever you do please don't listen to Gopher |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Gopher and EFLtrainer |
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| mithridates wrote: |
1)It seems lately that these two posters haven't been getting along and that there's something about the two of them that just makes it possible for them to have a civil discourse.
This thread challenges these pretensions.
First of all. I'm sure everyone is aware of the point they have in common with their names. They both have reached an area of skill in their chosen profession that gives them the suffix -er. What they do is beyond me - I assume one of them knows how to Goph, and that the other knows how to Effeltrain. I think the two of them know what it means but I'm not sure.
You'll notice that few of us other posters have a name like that - mine is the name of a wannabe hellenistic king who got his ass handed to him by Rome. On The Other Hand, sorry to say but everybody has another hand so you're down here with me as far as coolness of names go, and even Bobster, though he has an -er is a false cognate, e.g. he doesn't 'bobst' but rather is bob+ster.
2)Posting style: both are very good at cutting up each others points with the quote function and responding point by point, and keep up this interchange while the rest of us are left in the dust. This keeps them at the forefront and makes them the stars of the thread. The only other posters that good are, of course, bobster and joo. G and E will have posts like this:
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| and the veiled hypocrisy |
Which is a funny thing to say given your post yesterday at 6:30 pm, tinged with much more hypocrisy than what you are attributing to me now, not to mention your first response which was obviously a jibe from last week on the School of the Americas thread |
completely impossible to follow. In this sense they are unique.
3)Their joining dates add up to the same number. One is May 5th (5+5), the other is June 4th (4+6). Kwangjuchicken?
4)Both avoid catch phrases like eeevil Bushie, loopy lib and neocon even during the fiercest of debates, which is always a plus.
5)I suspect they are both native speakers.
There we have it, five indisputable points. So it would appear that being able to goph compared to being able to effeltrain is neither better nor worse, neither morally superior nor morally inferior to the other, that is, in matters of typing, discussion, and the quote function. Ah, but superior to us other posters (of course). Unless somebody else has an -er name in which case I'll consider it. |
You've convinced me. From now on my name is The Urban Myther and I demand to be called as such on this board effective immediately.  |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Just for the record Gopher voted for Gore and then Kerry. He never voted for Bush even once. ( I only voted for Bush one time the second time)
If you people have a problem with his politics then you don't only have a problem w/ conservatives you can't deal with moderates or even liberal moderates . |
Joo!!! You are soooo funny!! How do you manage to completly miss the point so spectacularly? I've gone from exasperation with you to looking forward to reading your posts... though I don't think I'll be responding too much.  |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
And look at Gopher's own citations.
Invariably, he is either
A) Calling someone a bozo.
or
B) Explaining how someone else is wrong because, in his opinion, they have some other sinister purpose which he takes it upon himself to define.
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Invariably? 100% of the time? I'd say that although lately his hackles have been up, he's usually quite respectful, incredibly well-informed, and if he wants to prove someone wrong, he doesn't have to resort to ascribing "sinister purposes."
Take, for example, the notorious thread in which Rapier called everyone who disagreed with him "disgusting hypocritical racist squatters." Gopher was infinitely patient, methodically taking Rapier to task instead of stooping to the inflammatory and offensive names being slung around. I admire that. He takes this board rather seriously, maybe giving it more dignity than it deserves. He's also a lot smarter than I am. I don't always agree with him, but I respect him a great deal. |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| HEY! You left out another poster with an "er" at the end of his name. Easy to do as he hasn't posted much lately. He's waiting for more interesting threads. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| If you people have a problem with his politics, then you don't only have a problem w/ conservatives; you can't deal with moderates or even liberal moderates. |
Thanks, Joo. This goes to the heart of the matter.
| kermo wrote: |
| I'd say that although lately his hackles have been up, he's usually quite respectful, incredibly well-informed, and if he wants to prove someone wrong, he doesn't have to resort to ascribing "sinister purposes." |
Thanks for this. I am without a doubt guilty for letting these two get under my skin and raise my hackles, as you say. I would also like to revise some of the things I've written here, on a few threads, but other than correcting my occassional "who's" when I meant to say "whose," etc., I've mostly resisted this urge.
However, if this board were an after-dinner party or a reception, they would clearly be guilty of following me around from room to room, and continuing to get in my face in order to hurl sarcasm and to constantly ridicule anything I might say, whatever I might say, even as I try to avoid them and limit my conversations and interactions to the other guests. You may have noted that sometimes they even function as a tag-team.
Proof? They'll be on here shortly because of what you two wrote, in EFL Trainer's case, at least, becuase he has got a very bad case of "last-word" syndrome, as is evidenced (yet again) on this thread, and this, incidentally, presents another negative comparison that Mith forgot to mention, I believe.
Someone mentioned The Bobster. Bobster and I have both agreed and disagreed on this board. But at least he's never followed me and harassed me from thread to thread, and for that, by the way, I thank him. He is a gentleman. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| I assume one of them knows how to Goph, and that the other knows how to Effeltrain. |
I met a nice girl this weekend who REEEEEEEEEELY knows how to effeltrain.
Man.
She could effeltrain the chrome off a trailer hitch. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
Either way, let there be no one suggesting they are more objective than others.
That's assinine. |
Since you came into this, I thought I'd clarify the record here, because you've already proven that we can't trust you to do anything other than mischaracterize and otherwise malign anything I say.
You say, "let there be no one suggesting they are more objective than others" as if to convict me of suggesting just that.
May I remind you of exactly what I originally said, in response to someone's question to me "Can we be objective?"
| gopher wrote: |
No. If objective reality exists, we distort it anytime we attempt to classify or describe it with words. Impossible to "get it straight." Only a supernatural being can do that.
On the other hand, we have critical thinking. Everything in its own context, for example, and we should not read history backwards. As bad, as insensitive, and just plain dangerous Bush is as president, this was an annual Washington event that required him to find a way to joke about himself or his presidency...
I doubt that he was laughing at the dead anymore than Columbus set out to rape, enslave, or kill Indians in the New World...so let's not read too much into it. I mean, is it really necessary to point out that Bush is insensitive and not far-sighted yet again[?] I believe that he is. [But] why are we still beating this dead horse? What good will come of it now, in 2005, when he can't even run again, ever? |
| gopher wrote: |
| Objectivity, or at least the attempt to be objective, begins with a sincere effort to look at the world through someone else's perspective. It's not entirely possible to do this, leaving yourself behind, but it is better than simply listening to someone else's perspective long enough to argue against it, and using rididule (see above) only exacerbates the situation. |
Can you please cite the part, here or elsewhere, where I suggested I was more objective than others? Is it my attempt to be fair and dispassionate about politics or is it my moderate, non-extremist position that you take issue with so vehemently that it drives you to follow me around from thread to thread?
Also, for Mith: who is mixing it up with whom here? I don't think I need to say much more on this theme.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=42695 |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| Regard your good name as the richest jewel you can possibly be possessed of - for credit is like fire; when once you have kindled it you may easily preserve it, but if you once extinguish it, you will find it an arduous task to rekindle it again. The way to gain a good reputation is to endeavor to be what you desire to appear. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Regard your good name as the richest jewel you can possibly be possessed of - for credit is like fire; when once you have kindled it you may easily preserve it, but if you once extinguish it, you will find it an arduous task to rekindle it again. The way to gain a good reputation is to endeavor to be what you desire to appear.
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That is a remarkably wise statement. Is it yours? Can I use it? |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| It's not mine but the guy wrote it has been dead for 2500 years so I don't think he'll mind if you find a time and a place to make use of it. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:49 am Post subject: ... |
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| Quote: |
| However, if this board were an after-dinner party or a reception, they would clearly be guilty of following me around from room to room, and continuing to get in my face in order to hurl sarcasm and to constantly ridicule anything I might say, whatever I might say, even as I try to avoid them and limit my conversations and interactions to the other guests. You may have noted that sometimes they even function as a tag-team. |
Back to harrassment charges. You have 1400+ posts on here. We (meaning you and I) have "interacted" on a handful of threads. Namely, on threads where you a) call criticism of Bush stupid b) accuse posters of harboring anti-US motives for their views.
I've already addressed issues of collusion with EFL or anybody else.
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| Since you came into this, I thought I'd clarify the record here, because you've already proven that we can't trust you to do anything other than mischaracterize and otherwise malign anything I say. |
You forgot my "all-consuming hatred". I also used to be "a liar". Mischaracterize? See your harassment charges above.
| Quote: |
| Can you please cite the part, here or elsewhere, where I suggested I was more objective than others? Is it my attempt to be fair and dispassionate about politics or is it my moderate, non-extremist position that you take issue with so vehemently that it drives you to follow me around from thread to thread? |
From our first thread:
| Quote: |
| Your hatred and arrogant cynicism project such a marvelous image of you: you're an extremist. You can't imagine such an objective position, so, in your narrow little mind, it's "hypocrisy-laden." |
And it's already here, but a subsequent example, absent of the word in question, but clearly a statement questioning someone's objectivity:
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| I think that you may be caught up in revisionist thinking on this point, that is, that the U.S. forced the Cold War down everyone's throat, ignoring local contexts, and perceiving everything in a non-existent East-West conflict. |
Then there's your handling of Katrina...
cheap shot
people get slapped around by nature
criticizing Bush is stupid
Then there come issues of extremism and Joo's typically off-topic post. I intend to start another thread about this issue, but suffice to say every time you label me or someone else an extremist you're making a comment on objectivity. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
Either way, let there be no one suggesting they are more objective than others.
That's assinine. |
Since you came into this, I thought I'd clarify the record here, because you've already proven that we can't trust you to do anything other than mischaracterize and otherwise malign anything I say. |
You don't even see it. Classic. Hung on your own petard.
Unfortunately all the evidence on "the" thread has been deleted.
I've never understood how someone not changing their mind in an argument can claim the *other* participant is being stubborn. Same here, you keep posting, but *I* need the last word?
A few small reminders: your just a bush hater, you have an agenda, your stalking me!! [sic], you're a drunk, stupid idea, insane....
Too bad that last post I made on "the" thread no longer exists. It was beautiful. Put this whole thing to rest quite tidily. The only response to that before it was deleted wholeheartedly agreed, stating you (gopher) had better stop digging the hole you were in or you'd end up back home...
This whole thing started as a funny skewering of us both, but of course.... |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| This should be a sticky. |
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