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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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 Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:14 am Post subject: |
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I'm sorry, do you have the survey results of an international business magazine backing you up?
No?
Then, I refer you to the title of the thread. |
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ed4444
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
I'm sorry, do you have the survey results of an international business magazine backing you up?
No?
Then, I refer you to the title of the thread. |
Are you one of these people accusing Koreans of extreme nationalism?
I hope not. There are plenty of other location/lifestyle surveys that Vancouver is not no.1 in. |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Link, please. |
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Gorgias
Joined: 27 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Hmm...
I lived in Vancouver too. It obviously has it's good points...
The main problem with Vancouver is it's in Canada. Canada has it's good points, and as mentioned above, a lot depends on who you are. But for a healthy, hardworking, young person, Canada might not be your best bet, mainly due to the tax problem. But also, like much of the Western world, Canada suffers from the "freedom from" problem. People living in Canada are free from very many hardships, exploitations and so on, but lack "freedom to" do many things. Clean cut sorts are gonna say that Canada is civilized and progressive, but, again depending on the person, one can enjoy rather greater freedoms (which yes, can just be called lax laws) in many other contries; our friend: Korea, being a good example. From driving unlicenced motorcycles on the sidewalk without a helmet, to no capital gains tax and familiy responsibility for the bodies of deceased relatives, Koreans enjoy all sorts of freedoms which Nazis-- err, I mean Canadians, do not. It depends what you like, if you want to be "Assured of certain certainties," Canada is the number one place to live. If you prefer to be "free to" do such and such, and are willing to risk not being "free from" what have you, then "no fun city" (one of Vancouver's nick names) is not the place you want to be. |
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jlb
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| The rain, the rain has started again here in Vancouver. Goodbye happy summer-time. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| So without slavery, it would still be something like 75% white US vs. 89% white Canada (remember not including slavery descendents for US %-wise stats). |
Most of the non-white U.S. citizens are either the result of slavery or unlawful immigration from Mexico and other Latin American countries. The U.S. had what was a "white's only" immigration policy from the 1880s to the 1920s, and this was altered to allowed a token number of non-whites in until the 1960s.
Not that Canada was much better with her laws of the day (head taxes and whatnot), but lawful non-caucasian immigration has been at a high percentage of the population for more than a century.
Without slavery, the U.S. would only have a higher percentage of non-whites due to illegal immigration from Central and South America. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Gord wrote: |
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| So without slavery, it would still be something like 75% white US vs. 89% white Canada (remember not including slavery descendents for US %-wise stats). |
Most of the non-white U.S. citizens are either the result of slavery or unlawful immigration from Mexico and other Latin American countries. The U.S. had what was a "white's only" immigration policy from the 1880s to the 1920s, and this was altered to allowed a token number of non-whites in until the 1960s.
Not that Canada was much better with her laws of the day (head taxes and whatnot), but lawful non-caucasian immigration has been at a high percentage of the population for more than a century.
Without slavery, the U.S. would only have a higher percentage of non-whites due to illegal immigration from Central and South America. |
Actually I got all the data from the US 2000 Census. You can't participate in the US census as an illegal immigrant.
Also contrary to Canadian opinion, there are millions upon millions upon millions of real honest to goodness Mexican-Americans, Cuban-Americans, Japanese-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Vietnamese-Americans, Ethiopian-Americans, Arabic-Americans, Iraqi-Americans, Palestinian-Americans, Filipino-Americans and every other nationality represented on earth of a different non-white colors (visible minorities) who legally live, work, and are represented in the US.. and who legally register themselves to participate on the US census.
That 75% white/25% non-white (excluding slave-descendents from our stats) is only legal Americans who have citizenship, can vote, etc.
You are right though that the illegal immigrant numbers in the States are staggeringly high.. I've heard estimates anywhere between 10 million to 20 million.. so if there were any accurate records on that, we could diminish the %-white significantly... but as it is, I'm only using the 2000 US Census of legal residents.
If you want an extra Canada challenge.. which two cities have the least number of Koreans in these 5 cities: Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo, Toronto, Vancouver, or Los Angeles? |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Actually I got all the data from the US 2000 Census. You can't participate in the US census as an illegal immigrant. |
Not only can illegal immigrants particpate in a US census, steps were taken for the 2000 Census to try and encourage more illegal immigrants to join in. http://www.census.gov/dmd/www/3-14.htm
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| Also contrary to Canadian opinion, there are millions upon millions upon millions of real honest to goodness Mexican-Americans, Cuban-Americans, Japanese-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Vietnamese-Americans, Ethiopian-Americans, Arabic-Americans, Iraqi-Americans, Palestinian-Americans, Filipino-Americans and every other nationality represented on earth of a different non-white colors (visible minorities) who legally live, work, and are represented in the US.. |
True. But if you remove the people here as a result of being descended from slaves and those through illegal immigration, you end up with the U.S. being a whiter country than Canada as Canada opened up the doors earlier and continues to this day to lawfully embrace more non-whites per year per capita that the U.S.
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| and who legally register themselves to participate on the US census. |
As noted already on the government website, citizenship or lawful papers are not required.
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| That 75% white/25% non-white (excluding slave-descendents from our stats) is only legal Americans who have citizenship, can vote, etc. |
With nearly 100% of blacks beind descended from freed slaves (as few people from Africa could have moved here lawfully before the 1960s and not many would have had the financial assets to accomplish such a move), and it is estimated that a large percentage of latinos in the U.S. are either undocumented now (upwards to 20%) or where born here through parents who came across the border for the purpose and now reside here through that anchor, I am curious how you have concluded that the U.S. would be 75/25.
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| You are right though that the illegal immigrant numbers in the States are staggeringly high.. I've heard estimates anywhere between 10 million to 20 million.. so if there were any accurate records on that, we could diminish the %-white significantly... but as it is, I'm only using the 2000 US Census of legal residents. |
The 2000 Census which made a special effort to track undocumented people estimates that approximately 10 million such people are in the U.S. with 2.3M of them in California.
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| If you want an extra Canada challenge.. which two cities have the least number of Koreans in these 5 cities: Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo, Toronto, Vancouver, or Los Angeles? |
Not a clue, and my Internet is broken. |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Tiger, rather than continuing to post things that are demonstrably wrong why don't you respond to any of my posts?
I never said that America isn't multi-cultural. I said that Canada is, too. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
| Tiger, rather than continuing to post things that are demonstrably wrong why don't you respond to any of my posts? |
Okay..
| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
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Do emigrants sail rusty boats into White Rock BC all the time?
Its probably one of the most isolated areas in the entire world for rusty boats from far-off nations to be arriving.. probably quite safe to say that emigrants arriving on rusty boats into Canada is nearly non-existant.. and shock value alone would warrant attention.
The U.S., however, its a drasticly different case. That being said, Cubans arriving in Florida, it happens all the time - just as described.. hence the little Cuban boy story a few years back. |
You are of course aware that Vancouver is closer to Asia than Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles and San Diego. You know this, right? You are of course aware that there have been thousands of Chinese people in BC and points eastward since the end of the 19th century? You are of course aware that Vancouver is Canada's largest port and a major point of entry for Asian goods to all of North America. You are of course aware that Asians have been floating into Canada for decades unreported? |
I didn't mention or allude anywhere that illegal Asian immigrants were pouring into Seattle, SF, LA, or SD on little rickety boats.
Actually I was referring (and thought I mentioned specifically) to citizens of Carribbean countries going into Florida.. but sounds like you are running with the idea and claiming Vancouver has the same situation (but with illegal Asian emigrants crossing the Pacific Ocean on rusty boats instead).
Sounds like a good 'Vancouver Vice' pilot show you could pitch to TV execs though. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| IN terms immigration its important to note that it was Vancouver that was the port of choice for democratic chinese after Hong Kong went back to the communists in 97. That is one of the many reasons that there are tons of asians in vancouver. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| IN terms immigration its important to note that it was Vancouver that was the port of choice for democratic chinese after Hong Kong went back to the communists in 97. That is one of the many reasons that there are tons of asians in vancouver. |
Yeah, exactly.. Canada opened its doors to rich Chinese in Hong Kong and Taiwan to bring tons of money with them..
Thats the entire point.. its significatly white and minority rich Chinese (from HK/Taiwan).. which is also why I brought up the Korean population in Vancouver - its around 30,000.. (Sao Paulo has 50,000 Koreans, Buenos Aires has 50,000 Koreans, Toronto has about 35,000 Koreans).
And strangely Koreans are one of the more visible non-chinese/non-white minorities in Canada.. and it only represents something like 1-2% of cities like Toronto/Vancouver. (I'll just assume Toronto/Vancouver is something like 2-3 million people each). |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| So should we let poor immigrants into our country? Does the US do that openly, I don't think so. The only difference is that our geography prevents people from just walking across our borders illegally. |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Actually I was referring (and thought I mentioned specifically) to citizens of Carribbean countries going into Florida.. but sounds like you are running with the idea and claiming Vancouver has the same situation (but with illegal Asian emigrants crossing the Pacific Ocean on rusty boats instead).
Sounds like a good 'Vancouver Vice' pilot show you could pitch to TV execs though. |
It's real, though. Here's a link from a few years back:
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It was going to be one of the biggest news stories of the year.
More boatloads of Chinese migrants were rumoured to be heading for B.C.'s shores in the summer of 2000.
The previous year, 599 migrants had arrived aboard four rusty freighters, and the summer of 2000 promised more dramatic pictures and videotape, more debate about the country's immigration policies, more upset in the Chinese community.
But it never happened-they didn't come.
Or did they?
At Vancouver International Airport, where dozens of foreign airliners touch down each day, 846 travellers made refugee claims in 2000. Another 903 did the same in 2001. Of those, 682 called China home. Others, in much smaller numbers, arrived from Iran, Sri Lanka, Mexico and other parts of the world.
Some turned up with genuine identification, but many were escorted by a smuggler, provided with phoney documents and coached on how to say the one magic word that could secure a new life for them in Canada: ref-u-gee. |
http://www.vancourier.com/issues02/021202/news/021202nn1.html
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Thats the entire point.. its significatly white and minority rich Chinese (from HK/Taiwan).. which is also why I brought up the Korean population in Vancouver - its around 30,000.. (Sao Paulo has 50,000 Koreans, Buenos Aires has 50,000 Koreans, Toronto has about 35,000 Koreans).
And strangely Koreans are one of the more visible non-chinese/non-white minorities in Canada.. and it only represents something like 1-2% of cities like Toronto/Vancouver. (I'll just assume Toronto/Vancouver is something like 2-3 million people each). |
See, that's what you do. You take some vague impression based on a short visit to one of the many cities you have waltzed through and extrapolate from there. You assume, and that often makes you wrong.
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Toronto ONT 5,202,300
2 Montréal QUE 3,607,200
3 Vancouver BC 2,173,100 |
http://www.citypopulation.de/Canada.html
So, people only become multi-cultural if they are non-Chinese/non-white/non-rich? That's a lot of parameters.
Anyway, seeing as Gord shot down everything else you wrote:
Prove the link between Commonwealth countries and the BBC survey. Prove that there is no risk of terrorism in America.
Prove that Canada encourages only white immigration.
Prove that Vancouver is "geographically isolated."
Prove that Chinese people don't illegally enter Canada on boats.
I'm waiting.
By the way, here's an article right up your alley:
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Visible minorities to top 50% in Toronto, Vancouver by 2017
OTTAWA - By the time Canada celebrates its 150th anniversary in 2017, more than half of Torontonians and Vancouverites will likely be members of a visible minority, says Statistics Canada.
According to new projections released Tuesday, the visible minority population of Toronto will range between 2.8 million and nearly 3.9 million within 12 years.
More than one million will be South Asians and more than 735,000 Chinese by 2017. This means that more than half of Canada's South Asians and about 40 per cent of Canada's Chinese will be living in Toronto.
The majority of the population in Vancouver will also likely belong to a visible minority group by 2017. Nearly one-half will be Chinese.
The visible minority population of Montreal would continue to be quite different than that of Toronto or Vancouver because of the higher proportion of Blacks and Arabs, says Statistics Canada.
By 2017, Blacks could represent 27 per cent of Montreal's visible minority population and Arabs 19 per cent. |
Last edited by Pyongshin Sangja on Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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Gord,
If illegal immigrants are being counted on the US census.. then even better because I didn't include them in any of the stats anyways.
So your saying that all non-white people AND non-black descendents are actually illegals from Mexico and Central America.
In regards to your theory that 100% of all blacks are descendents from slaves.. right here on the US census its noted that 1 million are from the African continent and emigrated to the US http://www.migrationinformation.org/USfocus/display.cfm?ID=250 .. so according to you, Canada is matching 10%+ for every non-white person who emigrates to the US? So you should have at least 100,000 Africans in Canada directly from Africa according to your theory. I'm looking on your census for Nigerians, Ethiopians, etc.. and it appears nearly non-existant. Can you point me in the right direction when your internet works?
Regarding illegal hispanics in the US.. http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/facts_for_features_special_editions/005338.html reports there to be 41.3 million in the US.. according to your data there were 10million illegally.. so that would mean 31.3million are legal.. so did Canada bring in 3.13million (at 10%) to match that number as well? They appear nearly non-existant compared to your projected estimate on your country's census reports.
I guess your point is if black and latino people didn't exist in the US.. and we only counted asian and white people and no one else existed.. then US/Canada might be similar.. well, I suppose if there are 284million Americans.. and 41.3million are hispanic and 33million are black.. then you'd be down to 210million americans.. and being that an additional 17-18million are not registered as white, black or latino.. then.. yeah, they could be similar numbers if 33million black and 41.3million latino people didn't exist in the US. |
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