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| Was it genuine? |
| Yes, he's playing dice with the lives of his own. |
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75% |
[ 6 ] |
| No, it's a leftist conspiracy theory. |
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25% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 8 |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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 Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject: Was the latest terror alert a political ruse? |
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Bill Maher raised this question on the latest episode of Real Time. Bush is under fire like never before. Even his base is starting to turn on him. All of a sudden there just happens to be a major terror alert.
Do you think this was faked as a political ploy to divert peoples attention?
By all reports, New Yorkers pretty much just went about their business regardless. If these terror alerts are subterfuges, and every one which goes by without incident causes more people to begin disregarding them, how much carnage will there be when the real thing strikes and no one is prepared because of politically engineered false alarms.
Regardless of whether it was right or wrong to invade, the mishandling of post war Iraq has shown Bush to be incompetent. And I think we can also all agree he is guilty of cronyism to the point of costing lives. But these things don't necessarily mean that his heart isn't in the right place. If this latest conspiracy theory is true however, then it shows to me very clearly where his heart lies.
No option for don't know, or don't care. What does your gut tell you? |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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It would be interesting (but not interesting for me to undertake) to graph terror alerts and political motives- elections, drops in the polls, needs for diversions from problems, etc.
I know that people get weary of being put on alert and having nothing happen. And I don't mean this just in terms of Bush. I have lived in Florida long enough to know that getting warned of bad hurricanes and then having ithem go elsewhere on a regular basis makes people complacent. That part just seems to be human nature.
The political use of terror alerts though is an interesting question. That Bush only places terrifically loyal cronies in departments like Homeland Security would make it quite possible for him to use the department as he pleases. |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Was the latest terror alert a political ruse? = Yes, local elections OTW.
But I must be a dumbo as I don't understand the poll options, so no vote. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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If there is a warning and there is no attack then it is a poltical trick.
If there is an attack and their is no warning then the government was negligent.
Those who oppose the US war on terror will blame the US no matter what is done. |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Just vote yes, wiseguy. As in "yes, it was a ruse". I'm a dumbo, too. What does OTW mean? On the way? www.acronymfinder.com raises several possibilities.
| Quote: |
Acronym(s) Definition(s) Info
OTW Off The Wall
OTW Off To War
OTW Off-Track Wagering
OTW On The Water (rowing term for the start of a session)
OTW On the Way
OTW On The Web
OTW On the Whole
OTW One True Way
OTW Optimal Transmit Weight
OTW Other Than War
OTW Otherwise
OTW Out the Window (display/graphics)
OTW Over the Water
OTW Over-The-Wire |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| manlyboy wrote: |
Just vote yes, wiseguy. As in "yes, it was a ruse". I'm a dumbo, too. What does OTW mean? On the way? www.acronymfinder.com raises several possibilities.
| Quote: |
Acronym(s) Definition(s) Info
OTW Off The Wall
OTW Off To War
OTW Off-Track Wagering
OTW On The Water (rowing term for the start of a session)
OTW On the Way
OTW On The Web
OTW On the Whole
OTW One True Way
OTW Optimal Transmit Weight
OTW Other Than War
OTW Otherwise
OTW Out the Window (display/graphics)
OTW Over the Water
OTW Over-The-Wire |
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On the way. |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
If there is a warning and there is no attack then it is a poltical trick.
If there is an attack and their is no warning then the government was negligent.
Those who oppose the US war on terror will blame the US no matter what is done. |
Good points. But the issue of using false terror alerts, which endanger civilians by making them complacent to the very real threat of terror, cuts to the heart of what kind of man Bush is. It's not just a dirty trick. It's playing politics with his own peoples lives.
The fact that he's just come under fire from his own base for appointing Harriet Miers, basically telling the people who elected him to get stuffed, casts a real aspersion on the man's character. And I'm wondering if these allegations are more than just a liberal conspiracy theory. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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As I know it it was the mayor and the police commissioner of New York that made the call.
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Although other U.S. intelligence and law enforcement agencies are not entirely convinced the threat information is credible, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly decided to err on the side of caution. New York, the scene of two terrorist attacks in 1993 and 2001 as well as numerous foiled plots, is especially sensitive to terrorist threats. In addition, after the bombings of mass transit systems in London and Madrid, authorities in New York had no choice but to take a threat against its subways seriously.
It is no secret that New York is in the crosshairs of any number of terrorist groups. Beyond its enormous symbolic value to the United States, the city is home to the United Nations and the U.S. financial district. It also is densely populated and contains a large and affluent Jewish population. Furthermore, as a hub of U.S. and international media, any attack in New York City would receive instant and complete international coverage. From the standpoint of terrorist target selection, then, the city meets all the criteria.
For Bloomberg, the political repercussions of not reacting to this threat would be severe -- even if it is later determined to have been a false alarm. Should it come out that he was informed of the threat -- which he has called the most specific terrorist threat that New York officials had received to date -- but did not act, his political opponents could use that against him in the November mayoral election.
New York City and its subway system remained Oct. 7 at threat level Orange -- the second-highest level in the alert structure -- where it has stood since Sept. 11, 2001. NYPD, however, has deployed additional officers, tactical heavy-weapons teams and bomb-sniffing dogs to the city's subways and commuter rail services. |
If this is the case then it is unfair to blame the president. |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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As I said, someone with some time on their hands could graph the occurance of high alerts and the need for diversions and support for the administration.
I would not be surprised to see a perfect correlation. |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
As I know it it was the mayor and the police commissioner of New York that made the call.
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Yep, exactly as I said earlier: local elections.
"And with that, m'lud, the case for the defence rests". |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:40 am Post subject: |
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Convenient wasn't it? Useful distractions. In politics timing is a lot.
Katrina apparently gave his "popularity" ratings a temporary boost. Seems to be sadly sagging again.
You can bet they've got all kinds of tricks up their sleeves. Provided it helps to further their agenda, casualities is never an issue.
Psy-ops
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psyops
NYC Subway "Plot": Just Another Fake Terror Alert
Steve Watson & Paul Watson | October 10 2005
AP has reported:
" ... the plot to bomb city subways with remote-controlled explosives has not been corroborated after days of investigation, law-enforcement officials said Sunday amid an easing sense of concern."
This is just the latest in a long line of fake terror alerts that are used for multiple reasons. Firstly to distract attention away from other more news worthy events, secondly to beef up security and funding for Police State measures, and thirdly to maintain the fear level amongst the American people and control them into accepting the continuation of the endless "war on terror".
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/october2005/101005faketerror.htm |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| manlyboy wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
If there is a warning and there is no attack then it is a poltical trick.
If there is an attack and their is no warning then the government was negligent.
Those who oppose the US war on terror will blame the US no matter what is done. |
Good points. But the issue of using false terror alerts, which endanger civilians by making them complacent to the very real threat of terror, cuts to the heart of what kind of man Bush is. It's not just a dirty trick. It's playing politics with his own peoples lives.
The fact that he's just come under fire from his own base for appointing Harriet Miers, basically telling the people who elected him to get stuffed, casts a real aspersion on the man's character. And I'm wondering if these allegations are more than just a liberal conspiracy theory. |
Oh good lord, you know damn well that if they had said nothing and something ala London would've gone down, you would be on here saying that Bush is a negligent idiot. The fact is, you have NO IDEA of "what kind of man Bush is." You think you know, I'll give you that, but your views fall in line with the other whacked out conspiracy theorists. Next, you're going to ramble on about the stolen '04 elections and voting machines, right?  |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:10 am Post subject: |
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There is one point to consider, America has been at a heightened state of alert for a while now. This becomes a non state of alert after a while, sometimes bumping the issue higher wakes people up and makes them more aware.
Just like a body builder needs to superset sometimes to wake his muscles up, yes it hurts but it hurts less in the long run. This is another way to view it, not as a political tool but as a security tool. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
| I would not be surprised to see a perfect correlation. |
A perfect correlation based, unfortunately, purely on circumstantial evidence, speculation, and your impressions. The data you would need to evaluate in order to investigate this issue and form valid, deductive conclusions will likely remain classified for several years to come.
Otherwise it's just an op-ed piece, or worse: a conspiracy theory. |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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A hoax, it seems.
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New York subway threat was a hoax, security sources admit
Jamie Wilson in Washington
Wednesday October 12, 2005
The Guardian
The alleged terror threat that sparked a big security alert on New York's trains and subway last week turned out to be a hoax concocted by an unreliable US informant in Iraq, it emerged yesterday. |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1590005,00.html |
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