|
Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Uranus
|
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:25 am Post subject: Violent city gangs run US city |
|
|
Quote: |
TOLEDO, Ohio (AP) - A crowd protesting a white supremacists' march Saturday turned violent, throwing baseball-sized rocks at police, vandalizing vehicles and stores, and setting fire to a neighborhood bar, authorities said.
When Mayor Jack Ford and a local minister tried to calm the rioting, they were cursed for allowing the march, and Ford said a masked gang member threatened to shoot him.
At least 65 people were arrested and several police officers were injured before calm was restored about four hours later.
Ford blamed the rioting on gangs taking advantage of a volatile situation. He declared a state of emergency, set an 8 p.m. curfew through the weekend, and asked the Highway Patrol for help.
``It's exactly what they wanted,'' Ford said of the group that planned the march, which was canceled because of the rioting.
At least two dozen members of the National Socialist Movement, which calls itself ``America's Nazi Party,'' had gathered at a city park to march under police protection. Organizers said they were demonstrating against black gangs they said were harassing white residents.
The violence broke out about one-quarter of a mile away along the planned march route shortly before it was to begin. One group of men pounded on a convenience store, and others overturned vehicles. There was a report of a shooting but police hadn't found a victim, Police Chief Mike Navarre said.
About 150 police officers chased bands of young men through the area. Officers wearing gas masks fired tear gas canisters and flash-bang devices designed to stun suspects, but the groups continued throwing rocks and bottles. Several officers and firefighters suffered minor injuries, Navarre said. At one point, the crowd reached 600 people, officials said.
Finally, police marched shoulder-to-shoulder down the street shouting to people to stay inside, and the crowd of several hundred broke up.
At least 65 people were arrested on charges including assault, vandalism, failure to obey police and failure to disperse, Navarre said. He said the white supremacists had left hours earlier.
``We frankly could have made a couple hundred arrests easily,'' Navarre said. ``We just didn't have the resources on hand to arrest all of them.''
The mayor had appealed to residents the night before to ignore the march. He said the city wouldn't give the Nazi group a permit to march in the streets but couldn't stop them from walking on the sidewalks.
When the rioting began, Ford tried to negotiate with those involved, but ``they weren't interested in that.'' He said people in the crowd swore at him and wanted to know why he was protecting the Nazis.
They were mostly ``gang members who had real or imagined grievances and took it as an opportunity to speak in their own way,'' Ford said.
``I was chagrined that there were obvious mothers and children in the crowd with them,'' he said.
Thomas Frisch, 76, said a large group of men destroyed the exterior of a gas station next to his home of 30 years.
``A whole big gang started to come in here. Next thing you know, they're jumping on the car. Then they overturned it. Then they started on the building, breaking windows, ripping the bars off,'' he said.
Louis Ratajski, 86, and his nephew, Terry Rybczynski, left Jim & Lou's Bar as a crowd gathered in front pelting police with rocks and breaking the windows. They climbed down a fire escape from the apartment where Ratajski lived over the bar and only later saw the fire on television.
``I was shaking. I feared for my life.'' Rybczynski said.
Keith White, a black resident, criticized city officials for allowing the march in the first place.
``They let them come here and expect this not to happen?'' said White, 29.
A spokesman for the National Socialist Movement blamed police for losing control of the situation.
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
chiaa
Joined: 23 Aug 2003
|
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah they tried to get me to join 'cause they heard I was pretty good with a bow-staff. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005
|
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Title contains just a tad of hyperbole, don't you think? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
|
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
EFLtrainer wrote: |
Title contains just a tad of hyperbole, don't you think? |
Maybe, but also a whole lot of truth. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
wannago wrote: |
EFLtrainer wrote: |
Title contains just a tad of hyperbole, don't you think? |
Maybe, but also a whole lot of truth. |
Toledo, Ohio?
Haven't been there for a while so this is all an education to me ... I mainly recall an old John Denver song with the city's name as the title and the lyrics :
Saturday night in Toledo, Ohio
Is like being no place at all.
They roll up the sidewalks precisely at 10
and people who live there are not seen again ...
Actually, in the current context, the lyrics seem a bit ominous ...
The title of the thread is a joke. The OP doesn't know it is, but it is. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
|
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here is the latest from Yahoo News on this story:
Neighbors: Neo-Nazis Had No Right to March By JOHN SEEWER, Associated Press Writer
49 minutes ago
In the days leading up to a white supremacist march, ministers pleaded with residents to stay calm and community leaders organized peace rallies. Authorities even delayed releasing the route so protesters wouldn't know where the group planned to march.
It wasn't enough to stop an angry mob that included gang members from looting and burning a neighborhood bar, smashing the windows of a gas station and hurling rocks and bottles at police on Saturday. Twelve officers were injured, one suffering a concussion when a brick flew through her cruiser window.
In all, 114 people were arrested on charges including assault, vandalism, failure to disperse and overnight curfew violations.
"We knew during the preparation that it was going to be a tremendous challenge," Police Chief Mike Navarre said Sunday. "Anyone who would accuse us of being underprepared I would take exception with that."
Much of the anger boiled over because people were upset that city leaders were willing to allow the supremacists to walk through the neighborhood and shout insults, residents and authorities said.
"You can't allow people to come challenge a whole city and not think they weren't going to strike back," said Kenneth Allen, 47, who watched the violence begin near his home.
Authorities said there was little they could do to stop the group, because they did not apply for a parade permit and instead planned to walk along sidewalks.
"They do have a right to walk on the Toledo sidewalks," said Mayor Jack Ford, who at one point confronted leaders of the mob and tried to settle them down.
A gang member in a mask threatened to shoot him, and others cursed him for allowing the march, the mayor said. He said he didn't know if the man who threatened him was actually armed, but he blamed gangs for much of the violence. The march had been called off because of the crowds, and the white supremacists had left.
If the Nazi group tries to come back, Ford said he would seek a court order to stop them.
Navarre said the riots escalated because members of the National Socialist Movement took their protest to the neighborhood, which is predominantly black, instead of a neutral place. "If this march had occurred in downtown Toledo, we wouldn't have had the unrest," he said.
The neo-Nazi group, known as "America's Nazi Party," said they came to the city because of a dispute between neighbors, one white and the other black.
Police began receiving word midweek from officers on the street that gangs were going to descend on the neighborhood in protest, the police chief said. The disturbances were confined to a 1-square-mile area, but the crowd swelled to about 600 people, overwhelming police.
The crowds were eventually dispersed by police in riot gear after about four hours, and the mayor declared a state of emergency that remained in effect through the weekend.
About 200 officers patrolled the neighborhood overnight after the riot, Navarre said. Police reported no problems Sunday, but an 8 p.m. curfew was in effect for a second night.
Neighbors were divided about the city allowing the march.
"They don't have the right to bring hate to my front yard," said Terrance Anderson, who lives near a bar that was destroyed.
Other neighbors said the group had a right to have their say. "Too bad the people couldn't ignore them," said Dee Huntley.
*****
It's easy to defend free speech when you agree with the issue. It's a lot harder to defend the Nazis in this case, but it's the right thing to do.
The Nazis came to town because of a dispute between two neighbors. Now the whole world can read about the Nazis. They got just what they wanted: inflamed tensions and free publicity. Dee Huntley was right. "Too bad the people couldn't ignore them". That would have been justice. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
dogbert

Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Location: Killbox 90210
|
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: |
Organizers said they were demonstrating against black gangs they said were harassing white residents. |
Sounds like they were able to prove their point.
This riot led the international segment of SBS news last night. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
dogbert

Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Location: Killbox 90210
|
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: |
Keith White, a black resident, criticized city officials for allowing the march in the first place.
``They let them come here and expect this not to happen?'' said White, 29. |
Idiot.
Do white people riot when the Nation of Islam holds a march? No. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005
|
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
wannago wrote: |
EFLtrainer wrote: |
Title contains just a tad of hyperbole, don't you think? |
Maybe, but also a whole lot of truth. |
Of course, wannago. If you think one riot means a city is run by a wild rampant crowd. It's hyperbole, and nothing more. If it were something like, "Gangs run wild in City" I could agree with you. But this title is hugely misleading.
But, hey, our agendas always shadow our judgement. In this case, is it your perception of me, or do you really believe that one riot in response to something abhorrant (No, I don't condone the riot. It was stupid and opportunistic.) means a gang is running a city due to your own biases and fears? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Uranus
|
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Its pretty simple to me. The Nazi's had a right to march unmolested. They were denied that right. We've been over this many times in the US
Many groups that annoy people have the right to say what they want.
Toledo is a partial US city. They let the laws for things like welfare checks function but they stomp on they freedom of speech issue. It is not allowed. The gov't does not have control of the city, the gangs do. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
|
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: |
Toledo is a partial US city. They let the laws for things like welfare checks function but they stomp on they freedom of speech issue. It is not allowed. The gov't does not have control of the city, the gangs do. |
Ummm...the group did not ask for a parade permit. The cops were out in force protecting them.
Looks to me like your prejudices are blinding you to what happened. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005
|
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
dulouz wrote: |
Its pretty simple to me. The Nazi's had a right to march unmolested. They were denied that right. We've been over this many times in the US
Many groups that annoy people have the right to say what they want.
Toledo is a partial US city. They let the laws for things like welfare checks function but they stomp on they freedom of speech issue. It is not allowed. The gov't does not have control of the city, the gangs do. |
Actually, the walkers (they had no permit nor had they applied for one, thus were acting solely as private citizens, not as a group, per se) were apparently in violation of Ohio law: virtually all states have a law regarding verbal assault. Racially motivated epithets would fall under that law. So, if there were racial epithets being spouted in any city on any sidewalk in Ohio, they were breaking the law and the police failed to do their duty and arrest and/or cite the walkers.
If they had stuck to spouting thier philosophy, you would be correct, but that does not seem to be the case. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Uranus
|
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
I can't recall the police arresting the Nazi's for what they said, that seems not to be an issue at least with the local law enforcemnt. The cops were there the whole time but the article said they weren't interested in the Nazi's. The marching permit was required to march in the street, it didn't have anything to with what they were talking about.
The Nazi's had a right to peaceably assemble but they were denied that right by the citizens and government of Toledo. The citizens acted horrendously and the mayor is spot on.
Should we blame this on George Bush and The Patriot Act? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005
|
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
dulouz wrote: |
I can't recall the police arresting the Nazi's for what they said, that seems not to be an issue at least with the local law enforcemnt. |
Exactly. Perhaps if they had doen their jobs the people would ahve had no reason/excuse to riot later. And what do you mean they were denied the right? They DID assemble and they DID walk the streets and they DID commit verbal assault. This is exactly the issue. They had no right to commit verbal assault. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Uranus
|
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
They did not commit a verbal assult becuase you said they did. I'm not respecting that analysis or claim. If they committed a verbal assault they would have been arrested, charged and convicted. That did not happen.
Why do you think I need to accept your assertion? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|