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Canadian politics- Gomery Report
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and let's not forget that Paul Martin organized a revolt against the PM that almost split the party in two just so that he could be prime minister as quick as possible. Then after getting the minority government he has now he agreed to a few billion in extra spending just to pass a budget through parliament and avoid an election. I've seen worse politicians but he's definately not one of the better ones. I say we go kidnap Preston Manning and make him be Prime Minister whether he wants to or not anymore.
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Bob O.



Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Location: The 'San

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
They've been in power before (70's and 80's).


Not entirely true... remember, there is a difference between today's Conservatives and the Progressive Conservatives. The difference is a bunch of cowboys who used to call themselves 'Reformers.'
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually hold on a second, we would probably be in Iraq if they were in power. Maybe I'm just wistful for Preston Manning.
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Alias



Joined: 24 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are only two factors keeping the Conservatives out of power.

1) The Social Conservatives - Many Canadians still see the old Reform Party. It just won't work. Harper has done his best to hide the so-cons during the past year. At their last convention social policy not discussed for such reasons. However, there isn't much he can do about the 'grassroots' of the party from speaking their mind. They are the ones who tend to scare away potential voters.

Are Conservatives going to "re-visit" the issue of same-sex marriage? If they do this will play into the Liberal Party's hands.

2)Foreign Policy- If Harper had his way Canada would have sent troops to Iraq. He did backtrack a bit during the election. This is definitely a losing issue for the Conservatives but I think if he can keep the wannabe Republican Stockwell Day quiet I think foreign policy shouldn't be much of an issue.

Also, "bringing Canada back to the table" with regards to Missile Defence will hurt them with moderate voters as well.
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's going to be nice seeing the Green Party with a few seats next election though. I'd say it's guaranteed seeing as how they have full funding now and will be on the debates next time. Plus they keep their membership a secret now so the NDP won't be able to spam their members like they did last time.
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Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mithridates wrote:
Oh, and let's not forget that Paul Martin organized a revolt against the PM that almost split the party in two just so that he could be prime minister as quick as possible.

It showed everyone just how much he cared about Canada and his party (not very much at all), and yet it just didn't seem to matter... Confused
Quote:
I've seen worse politicians but he's definately not one of the better ones.

No doubt.

I will continue to 'throw away my vote' and vote Green- I'm taking the long view.
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Alias



Joined: 24 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a Christmas election could be called next week. The NDP will not prop up the government any longer.

ARTICLE HERE
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Bob O.



Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Location: The 'San

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should be interesting... A recently (post-Gomery Report) released poll has the Conservatives leading at 31%, the Liberals at 28% and the NDP at 20%.
Story here


mithridates wrote:
It's going to be nice seeing the Green Party with a few seats next election though.


Agreed. Here's hoping fellow Canadians are keen enough to realise that Conservatives are NOT the ONLY alternative.
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Korea Newfie



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Location: Newfoundland and Labrador

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mithridates wrote:
It's going to be nice seeing the Green Party with a few seats next election though. I'd say it's guaranteed seeing as how they have full funding now and will be on the debates next time.


I'd say it's pretty far from guaranteed. If we had proportional representation, perhaps. But under first-past-the-post, no way. (I'd like to see it too, but it ain't happenin'.)

Bulsajo wrote:
I will continue to 'throw away my vote' and vote Green- I'm taking the long view.


Bob O. wrote:
Here's hoping fellow Canadians are keen enough to realise that Conservatives are NOT the ONLY alternative.


Guys, as much as I agree with your sentiments, the reality is that the Conservatives have so much support now that the left can't afford to be fractured. Remember why the Liberals stayed in power for so long? The right was split. If annoyed lefties abandon the Liberals and split the left vote two (or three) ways, the Conservatives will form a (possibly majority) government.

I'd love to vote NDP or Green, but Harper for PM scares the hell out of me, so I have to go Liberal. It's tough to be a liberal in Canada these days.
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Bulsajo



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The long view says that there are going to be more corrupt Liberal governments and possible even a Conservative administration or two before the Green party ever starts making a difference, but if you always take the 'oh no! we'll be split!' attitude there will NEVER be any new viable alternatives. So yes, I expect there will be people accusing me of 'throwing away my vote' for some time to come. I can live with that.
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Bob O.



Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Location: The 'San

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korea Newfie wrote:
If annoyed lefties abandon the Liberals and split the left vote two (or three) ways, the Conservatives will form a (possibly majority) government.


Is it considered an 'abandonment' if I've never voted for the corrupt buggers. My home riding is in good ol' conservative Alberta. Historically, the Liberals don't fare so well in AB. Last time 'round two Liberals scraped by (2 out of 28 seats). One of whom, David Kilgour, has since left the ranks to sit as an independent. I don't think the Liberals stand half a chance in any riding in Alberta, not even Anne McClellan's, no matter how undivided the left is.

Besides, as Jim Harris, leader of the Greens so eloquently states, "The Green Party is neither right nor left - we are in front."

Personally, I don't consider a vote for the Greens a wasted vote. The 4% of Canadians who voted Green in 2004 helped secure their status as a legitimate 4th national party and, as mithridates pointed out, their funding and place in the debates.

Korea Newfie wrote:
I'd say it's pretty far from guaranteed. If we had proportional representation, perhaps. But under first-past-the-post, no way. (I'd like to see it too, but it ain't happenin'.)


I wouldn't be surprised to see them get at least one in there (most likely their leader, Jim Harris). First of all, they have some good momentum going. In 2000, they received 1,100 votes, nationwide (0.08%). Four years later (and still without proper funding) they got about 500,000 votes (4%). Secondly, the Greens have hand-picked an environmentally conscious riding with a weak Liberal incumbent for Jim Harris to run in. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Furthermore, if the poll here on Dave's (with a whopping 15 votes) is any indication, the Greens are takin' it! Wink
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