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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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 Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| SuperHero wrote: |
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| To put it in "Dave's terms", I think I'd want to be where Superhero or the Beaver or Homer are at right now in their careers. |
life is definitely good for me. |
Agreed. I just bought my new apt. I've got some decent bank. And I enjoy my job.
I'm hard pressed to think of a reason to leave. |
| steroidmaximus wrote: |
| Quote: |
To put it in "Dave's terms", I think I'd want to be where Superhero or the Beaver or Homer are at right now in their careers.
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dude.
think: steroidmaximus |
Okay, okay.
"...Superhero or the Beaver or Homer or Steroidmaximus or Captain Corea are at right now in their careers."
I know this list is incomplete, and I've probably confused some posters with other posters. Appreciate there's only so much ass a guru can kiss. If anyone feels their ass has been unfairly left off the list, I can ASSure you it was merely an oversight and you may now consider your ass kissed. You even have my permission to kiss it yourself. I'm tempted to put a few of the girls on that list, but the risk of accusations (valid in a few cases) of uninvited sexual attention is not one I relish running.
Suffice it to say, there's sufficient living proof on this board that ESL-ing in Korea can indeed be a workable "future", as it's already happening for quite a few. Does that mean anyone who wants can make a career of it? Obviously not, but that goes for nearly any profession, doesn't it?
But the key questions remain: A future for how many? And for how much longer? |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:22 am Post subject: yes |
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| They're gonna have to. There's a shortage coming up here soon. |
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jacl
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| Red wrote: |
| Hey, thanks for pointing out the spelling mistakes. I dont know how I could have lived without your sharp eye and keen wit. Have you thought about trying to capture Osama Bin Ladin with these skills? |
I was drunk. 
Osama says, "Hi." |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
But the key questions remain: A future for how many? And for how much longer? |
10 years max.
The big push to put native speakers in all the schools is bound to fail. Even as they announce it they're ratcheting down the incentives. Lots will show up anyway, & drive many english hagwons out of business.
Meanwhile, the sheer number of newbies will assure a fair proportion of recalcitrant & ill-suited candidates in the public system who will quickly sour local administrators on the whole idea.
At the same time also, I'd say the system is doing a decent job of supporting intensive & overseas programs for younger Korean english teachers. Their caliber of english & knowledge of current methodologies is definitely on the rise.
Not just in Korea but globally I think well-trained locals will take over the role of imported "experts" at a more affordable cost. Some authenticity will be lost but I dont see a huge downside to localized "englishes" -- its already happening & doesnt seem a major obstacle to communication between 2nd-language speakers. Where students require native-like fluency, they'll find it abroad.
Niches will remain for foreigners to teach here but they will become more finely focussed & require serious credentials. Linguistics & literature spring to mind as future in-demand fields.
Make hay, kids -- winter's coming. |
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Red
Joined: 05 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| jacl wrote: |
| Red wrote: |
| Hey, thanks for pointing out the spelling mistakes. I dont know how I could have lived without your sharp eye and keen wit. Have you thought about trying to capture Osama Bin Ladin with these skills? |
I was drunk.
Osama says, "Hi." |
Ahhh, sorry. It was early. |
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Red
Joined: 05 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| schwa wrote: |
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
But the key questions remain: A future for how many? And for how much longer? |
10 years max. |
I agree, but not for the same reasons.
I think Korea is going to find itself more and more chummy with China, so English won't be as important as it is currently. It's going to be replaced. Also, those multi-subject hagowns are gaining more popularity. them having a large number of English teachers wont be nessecary. |
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crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:54 am Post subject: |
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| schwa wrote: |
Make hay, kids -- winter's coming. |
I think you're right. People in teaching in Korea either going to have to upskill and get some real teaching qualifications (if they are lacking) or move on. |
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Paji eh Wong
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:26 am Post subject: |
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1) All this chatter over the words of one Wonjangnim, who probably doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. It's balloon. He's seeing if he can get away with it.
2)
| schwa wrote: |
Make hay, kids -- winter's coming. |
Great post.
I agree with you that the EFL market isn't sustainable in its current form, but I don't think that local teachers will be replacing us any time soon. First off, at my Uni, I teach more and get paid less than most of the Korean instructors. I think that the public school system is the same. I know your example was global, but I think we are attractive employees in Korea because, in a lot of cases, we work cheaper and have less legal rights than Koreans. I think that Korea is going to go the way of Japan. Salaries will (/have) stagnate while inflation eats away at your spending power. Just another case of market maturation.
Now is always a great time to make hay.
3) I'd actually like it more over here if they chucked the plane fare, apartment money, and twee ji kum into my monthly salary. It would give me more choices and give my boss less stearage. That's completely self serving advice, now that I'm over here and set up, though. |
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just because
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Location: Changwon - 4964
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:41 am Post subject: |
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There is a lot of advice saying that there is only 10 years max left in this industry...i bet they were saying that 10 years ago as well when it started...
I think the above poster hit the nail on the head...japan is about 15 years ahead of Korea and I think that is where Korea will be in about 10-15 years and China will be the Korea of today....
Cost of living will eat into the savings and the earnings won't be as good here but the demand won't be as great either which means more demand for bilingual teachers(by then I will be) like myself who will be able to take advantage of well established connections...
I think as long as there is a demand for english the same system will remain..there is just not enough people to fill the bodies here and china and Japan are just that much more attractive(and by then even more so) |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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The good and bad: Lots of teachers who choose Korea aren't cash rich. Asking them to suddenly pony up $1400 for a last minute plane ticket might break their bank. I suppose schools might have to fund the ticket and make the teacher work off the debt. That's bad for teachers who get sucked into a bad school. Not only do they have to work off their plane fare debt but then they have to bank enough for an escape fund...
The good, if your own money is on the line it will make your marginal types think twice. We might get a better class of teachers. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Paji eh Wong wrote: |
| 1. First off, at my Uni, I teach more and get paid less than most of the Korean instructors. I think that the public school system is the same. I. |
No, it isn't. Not at my school anyway.
And definitely not at most hakwons. |
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Paji eh Wong
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
I suppose schools might have to fund the ticket and make the teacher work off the debt. That's bad for teachers who get sucked into a bad school. Not only do they have to work off their plane fare debt but then they have to bank enough for an escape fund...
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They do that now. Every contract I've signed said I had to pay back airfare if I didn't finish.
The idea that you get a free appartment and free airfare is bunk. The appartment, airfare, and year end bonus are strings that tie you to your school. Want to rock the boat at work? You'll be out on the street. Want to change jobs? Pay us back our airfare.
Airfare would probably be a good thing to get rid of. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| OiGirl wrote: |
| antoniothegreat wrote: |
| well, i really believe teachers here are more organized than hogwan owners, i think it would be much easier for us to refuse any contract that denies a plane ticket than them to get someone over here without it. they need us more than we need them. and they are like OPEC, agree to not offer tickets, but someone will start the process of stabbing them all in the back... |
The problem is not "teachers here" [in Korea,] but rather the new teachers who aspire to teach in Korea. Sure, we can organize and refuse a contract without a ticket, but there are plenty of fresh new university graduates out there who won't make such demands. |
But how many of them can shell out 1500 dollars for an airplane ticket? It's not likely to happen. They are more likely to stay close to home and try to find a job there, rather than risk spending all that money and flying to the other side of the world where they don't know anyone and most will probably not be aware of how easy it is to get a job here. Those who do will also be wary as they will have also heard of the horror stories here too. |
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| schwa wrote: |
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
But the key questions remain: A future for how many? And for how much longer? |
10 years max.
The big push to put native speakers in all the schools is bound to fail. Even as they announce it they're ratcheting down the incentives. Lots will show up anyway, & drive many english hagwons out of business.
Meanwhile, the sheer number of newbies will assure a fair proportion of recalcitrant & ill-suited candidates in the public system who will quickly sour local administrators on the whole idea.
At the same time also, I'd say the system is doing a decent job of supporting intensive & overseas programs for younger Korean english teachers. Their caliber of english & knowledge of current methodologies is definitely on the rise.
Not just in Korea but globally I think well-trained locals will take over the role of imported "experts" at a more affordable cost. Some authenticity will be lost but I dont see a huge downside to localized "englishes" -- its already happening & doesnt seem a major obstacle to communication between 2nd-language speakers. Where students require native-like fluency, they'll find it abroad.
Niches will remain for foreigners to teach here but they will become more finely focussed & require serious credentials. Linguistics & literature spring to mind as future in-demand fields.
Make hay, kids -- winter's coming. |
There are a number of reasons why nothing is going to change, re: english thrist.
-Deep ingrained Confucian cultural roots. Education is one of the pinnacles of Confucianism and Korea is the most extreme adopter of this and all the ensuing philosophies that has shaped and defined this culture.
-English is and always will be a global language. As long as every other country in the world treats english as the default global language of business and travel, Korea's competitive spirit will put the need for english at the forefront, as to not fall behind.
-As Korea has no real resources to offer the global community, their knowledge-based economy will only get a tighter grip on education and learning english.
-English will continue to be sought after, as long as Samsung, LG, Hyundai, and other companies continue to service the global market and Koreans strive to seek jobs there and prepare for their english/korean interviews.
-The fashion aspect. English is ingrained into pop culture and has become deep-rooted fashion in Japan and Korea. The Chinese language will never overtake the fashion element here, as there is far less mystique and allure to the chinese language and chinese pop culture, as much as what is placed on English and western pop culture.
-English education is one of the major pillars of the economy and generates over $3 billion in revenue. A country that is very self-conscious about its economic future and ability to survive in the global marketplace, is not going to do anything to stray from that, especially considering how conservatively grid-locked the govt is on change.
-All of the above contributes to the bottom-line that drives the economy and the Korean competitiveness of 'keeping up with the Kims'. As long as everyone else is jockeying for position and the parental thirst is there, nothing will change.
The public school english initiative will actually succeed in itself, but the frustrations that Korean parents have with the Korean education system as a whole, will continue to cause more parents to send kids abroad. If anything, we'll see an increase in overseas homestay brokers. Which will then trigger more publicly funded 'english towns' to combat the lost education revenue that is going elsewhere. The more risk that appears for losing/diminishing the english education aspect of the economy, the more that you will see the govt fight back to preserve it. Issues like that don't remain grid-locked in govt debate for too long.
As for the airfare debate, I've always maintained that the 'blind hiring' of prepaid airfare has got to go. However, removal of the airfare clause will never happen, even if it became against the law, as schools will exploit it for its competitive hiring advantage versus the hogwans across the street who are too cheap to provide airfare.
In short, don't expect much change, other than the govt's continued attempts to expand and develop the english education economy.
Last edited by chronicpride on Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| Paji eh Wong wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
I suppose schools might have to fund the ticket and make the teacher work off the debt. That's bad for teachers who get sucked into a bad school. Not only do they have to work off their plane fare debt but then they have to bank enough for an escape fund...
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They do that now. Every contract I've signed said I had to pay back airfare if I didn't finish. |
It's hard for them to get you to pay the airfare back if you midnight run.
| Paji eh Wong wrote: |
The idea that you get a free appartment and free airfare is bunk. The appartment, airfare, and year end bonus are strings that tie you to your school. Want to rock the boat at work? You'll be out on the street. Want to change jobs? Pay us back our airfare.
Airfare would probably be a good thing to get rid of. |
Yeah. But that what you don't pay for is under some definitions "free". It's part of your compensation package, sure. You trade time for 2 million won and an apartment. |
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