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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Compunction Junction
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:40 am Post subject: student drops a bomb: this class has bad teacher |
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This student used to be fanTASTIC! She is a very sharp girl and has tried very hard.
I have taught her in three seperate classes. The first class was FANTASTIC! Every student was bright and respectful and smart and fun.
Good times. Needless to say, there was a great deal of trust and i felt very comfortable and so, that class WAS a lot of fun.
The middle class was average and not worth mentioning.
Fast forward to the class she has joined now. A rancid exaggeration of ability levels (moving students two grades a head and one student one grade down...); 4 boys who could NOT care less about English; 2 girls who are very interested in English; and many people who could take it or leave it.
Anyways, these four boys have terrible attitude and consistently get any other student in trouble. They are really whiney and at times "lippy" (DANG i wish i spoke more korean...). Their attitude permeates everyone but two of the girls who care.
Anyways, I haven't felt like I can trust this class with overly energetic activities. I also feel like my attitude has sorta soured my ability to create a really good atmosphere. Despite the fact that MOST of these kids are terrible students, they CAN be a lot of fun and they can be funny. I have had a couple of amazing classes with them and I've been noticing certain responses with certain things.
For example, all but one boy will respond to positive reinforcement. This is fine until he just completely gives up on everything that day and doesn't care what he does (on "good days" that means he sleeps, on bad, it means he gets right into people's faces).
Anyways, this girl and I were having a discussion with another girl. This second girl said that BR (the bomb dropper) didn't like English because it was too hard. BR said that was not the case.
THEN, BR said something in korean and translated it herself:
"Teacher...last class was fun and good teacher. This class not."
Blammer. She is right on both counts and ultimately, i DO view this problem as my responsibility knowing that I SHOULD be able to manipulate these little nuggets into how i want them to behave.
For the most part, I'm just looking for some good advice, like most teacher's here, on some tried and true methods for making a GOOD atmosphere. I could give a list of things i've tried but i don't want people to hold back.
I am a trained teacher and really, I should know better than this, but i'm quite frustrated AND shocked (in a good and bad way) that this girl had the guts to say something like this to an elder who, (believe it or not) she likes.
Cause she DOES like me, just just thinks that the "teaching is bad now".
sigh...
not my best day...glad it's finishecd.
and efl trainer...i DIDN'T proof read. |
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sheba
Joined: 16 May 2005 Location: Here there and everywhere!
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:38 am Post subject: |
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I find competition works well with my middle schoo boys.
For example, If there is some reading, I will ask them a question one at a time and give them a point for a correct answer. Ill scale the difficulty of the question based on enthusiasm and interest. Giving your problem student the most basic of question which you are certain they will know the answer should at least get a response, and a point. It should get thewm at least a little bit interested and involved.
Also using different topics. One day we were studying 'never, seldom, sometimes, often, always' and I happen to think of "how often do you drink soju". Ok maybe a little unethical for 13 year old boy, but it was the best lesson we have had, and even now they still joke about it. Anywhere I work it into the lesson, I do.... and it works! Not only are they interested but they actually enjoy the lesson and we have a lot of laughs.
Sometimes I dont get to use either of these tactics though - and the class can be a nightmare!! |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:18 am Post subject: |
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A teacher is only as good as his tools. Unfortunately teachers are now denied the most efficent one in the box, a big stick. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:37 am Post subject: |
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I think the hardest part of teaching is being able to fake sincerity. By that, I mean to go into class each day and give emotionally, setting aside the problems in your own life and your private feelings about wishing a particular kid would get run over by a bus and removed from the gene pool. Kids do respond to your energy level.
Every couple of semesters either Marrianne or I would go to the lounge and b***h about a problem student. It was the job of the other one to remind them of Teaching 101...seating chart.
Quote: |
For example, all but one boy will respond to positive reinforcement. This is fine until he just completely gives up on everything that day and doesn't care what he does (on "good days" that means he sleeps, on bad, it means he gets right into people's faces). |
I'm concluding that this kid is the controlling factor in the class. Have you tried having a Korean teacher call up Mom and say, "Has there been anything going on in his life that would cause little Suk-Min to be a problem at school? We are very concerned about him lately. What advice can you give us?" |
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Wrench
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:04 am Post subject: |
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rapier wrote: |
A teacher is only as good as his tools. Unfortunately teachers are now denied the most efficent one in the box, a big stick. |
AMEN |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Compunction Junction
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:05 am Post subject: |
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It was the job of the other one to remind them of Teaching 101...seating chart. |
Yes...seating chart.
Tell me the F)*)* about it.
And we have had 3 (THREE!!!) school meetings with STUDENTS telling them that they must listen to us when we tell them to change seats. Can you BELIEVE IT?
That is so lame.
The whole reason(s) i haven't moved that one kid is that a)he'll put up a BIG fight, with me literally having to drag him there
and
(and this is the SERIOUSLY twisted part of the class)
b) Suddenly ALL the students (good and bad) will start patting him on the back when he's crying and say to me "teacher, he didn't do anything wrong".
It's really twisted what kinda view these kids have on behaviour.
They don't see Jae Min as being rude to the teacher, they see the teacher being mean for interrupting jae min as he told a story about math class.
YARG! I get angry just thinking about it.
And then the little jerks complain that they don't play any GAMES...
bah!
Thanks for the ideas folks!!! Keep em coming. Some have been done, some not. I've talked a dozen times to our head teacher but that monkey just says "I know...he's so terrible"... and interrupts me... and that's the end of that.
Quote: |
A teacher is only as good as his tools. Unfortunately teachers are now denied the most efficent one in the box, a big stick. |
not that great at helping kids learn but handy as hell to help them remember what is right and wrong.
This is in theory. I see korean teachers doing this on a daily basis and their kids are still messe dup. |
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jacl
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:25 am Post subject: |
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Advice:
Use your head. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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then the little jerks complain that they don't play any GAMES. |
What about this:
Get a clear platic jar and four tokens. Post a list of about 5 clear rules in English and Korean: no sleeping, no Korean, no hitting....whatever the most serious misbehaviors are.
At the end of each 10 minutes of cooperation, drop in 1 token, or explain that Jae Min was screwing around. If the class gets 4 tokens they get a game. The alternative is a worksheet or other regular activity. IOW, try to turn the class against Jae Min when he doesn't cooperate. Group pressure can work sometimes where authority figures fail. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005 Location: the crib
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Quote: |
then the little jerks complain that they don't play any GAMES. |
What about this:
Get a clear platic jar and four tokens. Post a list of about 5 clear rules in English and Korean: no sleeping, no Korean, no hitting....whatever the most serious misbehaviors are.
At the end of each 10 minutes of cooperation, drop in 1 token, or explain that Jae Min was screwing around. If the class gets 4 tokens they get a game. The alternative is a worksheet or other regular activity. IOW, try to turn the class against Jae Min when he doesn't cooperate. Group pressure can work sometimes where authority figures fail. |
Ooh, nice idea.
I think that'll help me to get a couple of my students who just sit there and stare to start actually doing work. |
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desultude

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: student drops a bomb: this class has bad teacher |
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khyber wrote: |
This student used to be fanTASTIC! She is a very sharp girl and has tried very hard.
I have taught her in three seperate classes. The first class was FANTASTIC! Every student was bright and respectful and smart and fun.
Good times. Needless to say, there was a great deal of trust and i felt very comfortable and so, that class WAS a lot of fun.
The middle class was average and not worth mentioning.
Fast forward to the class she has joined now. A rancid exaggeration of ability levels (moving students two grades a head and one student one grade down...); 4 boys who could NOT care less about English; 2 girls who are very interested in English; and many people who could take it or leave it.
Anyways, these four boys have terrible attitude and consistently get any other student in trouble. They are really whiney and at times "lippy" (DANG i wish i spoke more korean...). Their attitude permeates everyone but two of the girls who care.
Anyways, I haven't felt like I can trust this class with overly energetic activities. I also feel like my attitude has sorta soured my ability to create a really good atmosphere. Despite the fact that MOST of these kids are terrible students, they CAN be a lot of fun and they can be funny. I have had a couple of amazing classes with them and I've been noticing certain responses with certain things.
For example, all but one boy will respond to positive reinforcement. This is fine until he just completely gives up on everything that day and doesn't care what he does (on "good days" that means he sleeps, on bad, it means he gets right into people's faces).
Anyways, this girl and I were having a discussion with another girl. This second girl said that BR (the bomb dropper) didn't like English because it was too hard. BR said that was not the case.
THEN, BR said something in korean and translated it herself:
"Teacher...last class was fun and good teacher. This class not."
Blammer. She is right on both counts and ultimately, i DO view this problem as my responsibility knowing that I SHOULD be able to manipulate these little nuggets into how i want them to behave.
For the most part, I'm just looking for some good advice, like most teacher's here, on some tried and true methods for making a GOOD atmosphere. I could give a list of things i've tried but i don't want people to hold back.
I am a trained teacher and really, I should know better than this, but i'm quite frustrated AND shocked (in a good and bad way) that this girl had the guts to say something like this to an elder who, (believe it or not) she likes.
Cause she DOES like me, just just thinks that the "teaching is bad now".
sigh...
not my best day...glad it's finishecd.
and efl trainer...i DIDN'T proof read. |
Yours is an example of good English, with some typos and signs of fast writing. It is a good example of what happens when someone knows his craft and cares writes when he or she is in a hurry. This is distinctly different than the posts where the bad English clearly indicates poor English skills. In this case, I would be surprised if efl trainer cared- I sure as hell don't. I think you are probably referring to the post where the guy is kvetching, with poor grammar, about his inability to get a uni job. It is clearly a different situation, and his usage indicates lack of knowledge and skill, not that he was writing quickly and emotionally.
As for your problem. Good luck. You were given a gift by the student, and you sound like a committed enough teacher to use it wisely. |
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Yu_Bum_suk

Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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rapier wrote: |
A teacher is only as good as his tools. Unfortunately teachers are now denied the most efficent one in the box, a big stick. |
Not everywhere - only the teachers who put up with it, he he he!
But, put the same brats in an institution where there's the possibility of perhaps getting sent to Dam-eam-sungsangnim who can do whatever he/she likes *and* respects the foreign teacher, and guess what? The big stick is completely unnecessary! |
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ThePoet
Joined: 15 May 2004 Location: No longer in Korea - just lurking here
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Solution 4: Try group work.
Two ways you can do this; one being to TRY to develop the class, the second being to seperate the keeners from the slackers. It all depends on your philosophy. Are the slackers worth saving or are they deadwood and no matter what you do, will they continue to be dead wood. A true teacher always tries to have belief that they can teach anyone and everyone, but the truth is, there are always that bottom 5% in the pedagogy rule. So, lets get onto the two ways:
1. Develop activities that pit two groups against each other in friendly competition. Chose your groups to include the two best and the two worst with everyone else in between. Make the best ones the group leaders (as an alternative, you can have a weekly leader based on best individual performance). Each week or month, the group with the best performance gets a prize and the prizes can be accumulated to trade up if they choose. i.e. first week - coupon for ice cream cone at McDonalds, or they can accumulate the coupons and get a hamburger, or up again to a pizza party after a month, etc. Each time they trade in their coupons they go back down to the ice cream cone for the bottom prize.
2. Same thing...friendly competition. However, make the first group your star students. The other group is your slackers. Give your slackers -- well -- slack. Let them sleep, not participate, etc. But you develop the group that wants to do well. The key here is, you are not stressing yourself on those who don't want to be there and don't want to learn, and niether are the good students. Don't get me wrong. You STILL give assignments and exercises to both groups, but you simply do not freak out if the slackers don't do it.
Hope that helps.
Poet |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Location: Easy Street.
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:41 am Post subject: |
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Do what you can and when you get stressed remind yourself there's only so much you can do.
Some students won't and some students can't perform the way you want them to do.
And if the behaviour that drives you crazy is ingrained in Korean culture trying to change it is like swimming against the current. |
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EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:29 am Post subject: |
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rapier wrote: |
A teacher is only as good as his tools. Unfortunately teachers are now denied the most efficent one in the box, a big stick. |
No, no, no, no, and again, no. I need to shut up now...
khyber: You've already gotten some good ideas on how to handle the situation, so I won't add anything. Well, one thought. And, frankly, I hate saying it, but there are times when the best way to handle a problem is to ignore it. HOWEVER, I would thin twice about "dumbing down" a class to meet the mediocre middle. You've been given some ideas (most of which I'm sure you already know; you're having a reaction to cultural differences as much as anything, it seems) to deal with the slackers, but in the end, if they don't come around, why sacrifice the others? The slackers will learn *something* just from the exposure, no?
Aside: desultude was dead on. Sorry if I offended in the past. It happens despite my intentions. Mostly. |
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xeno439
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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sheba wrote: |
Also using different topics. One day we were studying 'never, seldom, sometimes, often, always' and I happen to think of "how often do you drink soju". Ok maybe a little unethical for 13 year old boy, but it was the best lesson we have had, and even now they still joke about it. |
They love talking about soju at any age. It is definately an ice breaking topic. |
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