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matthews_world
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:03 am Post subject: US-Mexican Border: Breaking the Wall |
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Mexico says to fight U.S. plan for border wall
Thu Dec 1, 6:56 PM ET
MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Mexico will fight proposals to fortify part of the U.S.-Mexico border with a high-tech wall, Foreign Minister Luis Ernesto Derbez said on Thursday.
Concerned about the huge numbers of illegal immigrants streaming across the border, and worried it could be an entry point for terrorists, many members of the U.S. Congress are backing an idea to erect a Berlin Wall-style division along the border.
Rep. Duncan Hunter (news, bio, voting record), a California Republican who chairs the House Armed Services Committee, has proposed building two parallel steel and wire fences with a lighted strip in between running from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific coast.
"We will use all means necessary, and I am referring to things like international tribunals (and other) international action, to make it clear that this is not an act that would resolve the migration issue," Derbez said.
President George W. Bush pledged this week to step up the use of unmanned flying drones, fences and technology to tighten border security. A 14-mile (23-km) fence south of San Diego has already slashed illegal crossings there, officials say.
Each year, more than 1 million undocumented migrants try to slip across the rivers and deserts on the 2,000-mile (3,200-km) U.S.-Mexico border in search of work in the United States.
Many die en route in the searing desert heat.
Opponents say a fence would not be 100 percent effective.
"I guarantee the U.S. government that (a wall) will not stop migrants. What will happen is they will climb over it or burrow underneath," Derbez said. "The solution is an agreement to permit legal migration, secure and ordered."
President Vicente Fox said this week he would keep fighting for a migration reform that could benefit millions of Mexican fruit pickers, waiters and janitors in the United States.
Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said a wall running the length of the border would cost too much and did not make sense for desert areas.
He told a briefing in Washington the plan was for a "smart," "21st century" barrier combining high-tech fencing in urban areas and surveillance technology in desert areas. |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051201/pl_nm/security_mexico_usa_dc_1
Face it. I'm American and I sympathize with our neighbors to the South. Mexican immigrants were cheap labor during the World War II era.
Illegals have gotten out of hand. In many states, governments are adopting or debating legistlation that will give them legal bank accounts and, thusly, the ability to earn driver's licenses, for example. California is just one of these states.
Something's gotta give. Will the Rio Grande become another Palestine? This should have been built several years ago. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:09 am Post subject: |
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It sounds more like the Great Wall of China than the Berlin Wall, both in size and purpose.
If the US really wants to control immigration, then start punishing employers who hire illegals. They exploit desperate people for private financial gain, and to hell with the country.
Linking it to terrorism is just slimy. |
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Tiger Beer

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:59 am Post subject: |
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The best thing the United States could do for Mexico is start investing and building up their economy.
If Mexico has a healthy economy, then Mexicans themselves would be just as happy to work there and be around their family, friends, everything else.
Most Mexicans don't necessarily want to be living and working in the US away from their families, but because of simple economics, they must.
Building a wall seems to be an extremely costly aggressive option for dealing with a problem that is actually an economic one. |
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Dan The Chainsawman

Joined: 05 May 2005
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:54 am Post subject: |
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Illegal immigration is practically the lifeblood of some southwestern states for cheap labor. However, I see no problem with erecting a wall that will secure our national interests. Many spots along the border have long been subjected to acts of violence from the Mexican border. Securing our country from potential violence seems like a wise decision to me. However, I do question a massive wall being the best way to go. Will a wall simply provide more targets for those interested in inflicting violence?
Investing in the Mexican economy is a good solution. Providing the governmental infrastructure is sound. I would have no problem with investing in Mexico. As a country some of my more memorable childhood memories stem from my time spent in Mexico. Yet the Mexican government so rife with corruption makes it a daunting proposition to invest in the country.
No easy solutions come to mind, but cleaning up our own house with those who harbor illegal workers seems like a smart choice. Building a wall would undoubtably solve the problem, but with that it also raises the specter of a expense of building, maintaining, and patroling a massive coast to coast catastrophe waiting to happen. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:55 am Post subject: |
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I think a wall is an expensive cheap-shot. We want your labor but we don't want you.
If it's really about terrorists, what is to stop a suicide bomber from walking across the border from Canada? That border is longer and just as easy to cross. Maybe easier. It strikes me they are using terrorism as an excuse to play the race card for the support of the racists (who would support them anyway) while pretending it is to prevent terrorism. I don't buy it.
I said it before, if the government is serious about controlling immigration then they would seriously fine employers who break the law. That is not going to happen.
The reason it isn't going to happen is because employers want cheap labor. If immigration is controlled, then the law of supply and demand goes into action and wages go up. Capitalism is a lot less popular with the capitalists when it favors the workers. |
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matthews_world
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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There is talk about giving guest worker permits to select aliens renewable after 12 months.
The problem is that we are too self-serving to lower ourselves to work in low-paying restaurant and housekeeping jobs. Mexicans are some of the hardest working people I've ever encountered, but there are the exceptions. |
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OiGirl

Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Location: Hoke-y-gun
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
It sounds more like the Great Wall of China than the Berlin Wall, both in size and purpose.
If the US really wants to control immigration, then start punishing employers who hire illegals. They exploit desperate people for private financial gain, and to hell with the country.
Linking it to terrorism is just slimy. |
Also...
Americans need to agree to work in manufacturing, agriculture, and construction for minimum wage. Or employers need to agree to pay a living wage. Or Americans need to agree to pay the price that goods will cost if those who produce them are paid a living wage! |
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desultude

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| matthews_world wrote: |
There is talk about giving guest worker permits to select aliens renewable after 12 months.
The problem is that we are too self-serving to lower ourselves to work in low-paying restaurant and housekeeping jobs. Mexicans are some of the hardest working people I've ever encountered, but there are the exceptions. |
No, the problem is that immigration has been used to depress wages in the U.S. by maintaining a surplus of workers. So long as there is someone legally vulnerable, there is someone to work in subhuman conditions for sub minimum wage. The conditions for farm workers are still deplorable, after years of struggle to improve things. |
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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Uranus
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:03 am Post subject: |
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I'd really like to see employers get busted, like having the whole business seized. I'd also like to see public service ads on TV about illegal immigration they way I see ads for "Drug Free America". That would be all day in whatever media I read.
Mexican labor adds nothing or little to The US economy. We don't need more food worker as we are too fat aleady and we don't "need" maids. Illegal immigration is also about free public services like healthcare and education. Its called "La Pinata". Mexicans like free schools but its that having to go to school part and studying they don't like. Mexicans really don't do well in school although that's part of the get a btter life excuse they site so often.
Helping the Mexican economy is a non start. That would involve monopoly economic policies and that by itself would cause problems but the Mexicans would interpret it as "get it free becuase they have to" and it would be abused. Further, you'd have to skim off 30% of all the cash for routine bribes and kickbacks, then another 30% due to stubborness mentioned earlier and the effort would fail by half.
Economic development would mean forcing trade items made in China to be made in Mexico in factories there. Is that what you are thinking? |
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desultude

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| We don't need more food worker as we are too fat aleady |
Reminds me of a quote from, I believe, H.L, Mencken:
"You can reason a person out of a position they didn't use reason to get into in the first place."  |
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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Uranus
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| Why is my position unreasonable? Americans are very obese and low food prices help in that way. Mexicans work in the agriculture-food industry at low wages and that translates into prices that makes Americans want to consume even when they aren't hungry. No, thier help won't be missed after the food Jones wears off. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:46 am Post subject: Re: US-Mexican Border: Breaking the Wall |
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| matthews_world wrote: |
| In many states, governments are adopting or debating legistlation that will give them legal bank accounts and, thusly, the ability to earn driver's licenses, for example. California is just one of these states. |
Actually, I've read somewhere that the federal government has setup a loophole that simplifies things for them. All they need to do is fill out a form to request a tax payers number of some sort that will allow them to pay federal income tax. Once the form as been processed, they essentially become legal residents because the number can be used as a substitute for the social security number. |
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desultude

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| dulouz wrote: |
| Why is my position unreasonable? Americans are very obese and low food prices help in that way. Mexicans work in the agriculture-food industry at low wages and that translates into prices that makes Americans want to consume even when they aren't hungry. No, thier help won't be missed after the food Jones wears off. |
Besides the fact that what you said:
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| We don't need more food worker as we are too fat aleady |
Is semi-literate, I somehow doubt that Americans are fattening up on the carrots, tomatoes and oranges being picked by the migrant workers.  |
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OiGirl

Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Location: Hoke-y-gun
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: US-Mexican Border: Breaking the Wall |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| matthews_world wrote: |
| In many states, governments are adopting or debating legistlation that will give them legal bank accounts and, thusly, the ability to earn driver's licenses, for example. California is just one of these states. |
Actually, I've read somewhere that the federal government has setup a loophole that simplifies things for them. All they need to do is fill out a form to request a tax payers number of some sort that will allow them to pay federal income tax. Once the form as been processed, they essentially become legal residents because the number can be used as a substitute for the social security number. |
This is becoming less and less true. Agencies are realizing what those 9XX-XX-XXXX numbers are...and they are not Social Security numbers! They can no longer be used to register children for school. |
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The Hammer
Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Location: Ullungdo 37.5 N, 130.9 E, altitude : 223 m
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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delete
Last edited by The Hammer on Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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