Korean Job Discussion Forums

[laogaiguk]

[Rteacher]

It's exactly a "straw man" argument. "Churchianity" is a very weak example of a religious system. Because of our Western Judeo-Christian ethnocentricity we think that it must be as good as organized religion gets. More scientific-minded spiritual seekers should read the essential Vedic literature like Krishna's Bhagavad-gita as presented by a pure devotee of Krishna (www.krishna.com)

[the_beaver]

[Rteacher]

...Don't mince your words (whatever that means...) Actually, a couple of my Krishna friends back in Florida have legitimate credentials as scientists, and they have published and produced some stuff that even some reputed scientists have commended...Here's an excerpt from their web-site: http://www.afn.org/~bvi/mission.html

Science and Religion
Both science and Gaudiya Vaishnava philosophy present a detailed account of the observable universe. Science takes as its starting point the assumption that all observable phenomena are produced by matter transforming according to fixed mathematical laws. Vaishnava philosophy, in contrast, attributes all phenomena to the creative action of a Supreme Sentient Being. Both in details and in general principles there are many contradictions between these two views of reality. The question is: How are these contradictions to be resolved? Can we arrive at a unified understanding of the universe that is compatible both with the ancient Vaishnava teachings and with modern observation and reasoning?

The research being conducted at BI Alachua is based on the thesis that worldview of Vaishnava philosophy is compatible with the evidence provided by empirical observation. However, this worldview is clearly not compatible with several key theories promulgated by modern science. This leads to the inevitable corollary that these theories are not fully supported by the available empirical evidence.

Although this conclusion may appear to be anti-scientific, it is not. Actually, BI Alachua aims to bring about a revolution, or paradigm shift, in our scientific view of reality.

The BI Alachua research effort involves the following specific lines of investigation:

I. Investigation of the empirical evidence and theoretical reasoning that provides the basis for several major contemporary scientific theories. These include (1) modern cosmology and the modern "Big Bang" theory of the origin of the universe, (2) the laws and principles governing life and matter, (3) the modern theory of the origin of species (Darwinian evolution), and (4) modern scholarly views regarding the origin and development of human civilization.

II. Studies in the sociology of science. One of the findings of the BI Alachua research effort is that scientists (and people in general) tend to filter observational data in accordance with their theoretical preconceptions. This has a major impact on our scientific picture of reality. The systematic study of this phenomenon of "information filtering" is an ongoing topic of BI Alachua research.

III. Studies of specific lines of evidence tending to support the Vaisnava world view. Here one might naturally ask whether or not research aimed at supporting a particular world view could possibly be of scientific value. One might argue that such research would be biased by the preconceptions of the researchers, and thus it would be led astray as in item II above. However, it is also a fact that nearly all important mainstream scientific research is carried out by people who are pursuing explicit theoretical goals. Information filtering and theoretical bias have adverse effects primarily when they act unconsciously. This tends to happen when research is carried out in accordance with a prevailing "consensus reality" which forms an unseen and unquestioned background to people's thinking. By explicitly introducing research based on a novel perspective into the arena of modern science, BI Alachua aims to stimulate the advancement of human knowledge by providing new perspectives and counterbalancing existing biases in research.

One feature of the BI Alachua research program is that it takes advantage of many different lines of empirical investigation which are being pursued by people with differing theoretical perspectives. Our aim is to take advantage of the positive results provided by these different research groups. These lines of research include (1) mainstream science in several different fields, (2) creationism, (3) parapsychology, (4) alternative medical research, (5) ufology, (6) the phenomenology of religion, and (7) the study of archeological and historical anomalies.

We do not by any means agree with all of the claims made by researchers in these various fields. But we have observed that all of them, impelled by their various perspectives, have useful contributions to make. For our own part, we have been impressed by the degree to which many different empirical findings tend to broadly support the Vaisnava world view. We hope that further investigation inspired by the Vaisnava world view will provide useful insights that will be of value to seekers of knowledge in all fields.

According to Vaisnava philosophy, absolute knowledge of reality comes down to us from the eternal spiritual world through an unbroken chain of preceptors or acaryas. Such knowledge can be accepted as perfect since it emanates from a perfect source. In contrast, knowledge based on reasoning about mundane sense perceptions is imperfect due to the limitations of the material mind and senses.

Modern science agrees, in principle, with the second of these two points. Scientists generally stress the provisional and tentative nature of their theories. However, modern science has no counterpart of the absolute revealed knowledge of Vaisnava philosophy (although they sometimes do present theories as unquestionable facts).

Since many people of the modern day and age turn to science when seeking knowledge, the research conducted by BI Alachua is also empirically based. It refers to the traditional Vaisnava texts as a source of ideas which are then examined in the context of empirical data. Of course, the traditional Vaisnava teachings are directly available for those who can place faith in their revealed message. The role of BI Alachua is to point out empirical correlates which show that even from a scientific standpoint the Vaisnava world view is realistic and is a source of valuable insights.

In this regard, BI Alachua adopts a direct approach to interpreting the traditional Vaisnava texts (or Vedic literatures). Direct interpretation means to accept a statement as it is, in as close accordance with the dictionary meaning of the words. Many scholars may question this approach and say that it smacks of narrow-minded religious literalism. But there is a sound epistemological reason for approaching traditional texts in this way. Since this is a matter of some importance, I am including an appendix from my book Alien Identities, where the direct approach to interpreting Vedic literature is discussed in some detail.

The findings of the research carried out at BI Alachua are presented to the public through books, articles, videos, speaking engagements, and media presentations. There are also plans to develop course materials on the secondary school and college level.

Temple of the Vedic Planetarium
BI Alachua is providing the scientific exhibit material for both the "Glory of India" Project museum in New Delhi and the "Temple of the Vedic Planetarium" in Mayapur. Computer animation sequences will be generated for large and small screen video exhibits, interactive computer displays, planetarium dome shows, and virtual reality exhibits. There will also be low-tech exhibits using solid models, sculptures, relief panels, dioramas, and simple mechanical models. The topics of the exhibits will include the structure of the Fifth Canto universe, a journey through the universe, the Surya-siddhanta, other humanlike beings, Vedic ideas on higher dimensions of space with empirical evidence supporting them, the limitations of science, Vedic history, and other scientific topics related to the Vedic version but not directly to cosmology, such as human origins and the relationship between the body and mind.

Publications
God and Science: Divine Causation and the Laws of Nature: In September of 2004, we published God and Science: Divine Causation and the Laws of Nature, a collection of 21 essays by Dr. Richard L. Thompson on science and religion, divided in five categories: religion and the laws of nature, physics, consciousness, evolution, and ancient civilization and cosmology. Dr. Sheldon Isenberg, head of the Religion Department at the University of Florida, and who teaches a course in science and religion wrote a very appreciative foreword for this book.

Maya: The World As Virtual Reality: In June of 2003, we published Maya: The World As Virtual Reality, a fascinating book which describes a virtual reality theory of the universe that can accommodate a lot of evidence that traditional theories are unable to deal with. We got some nice prepublication reviews and Dr. Thompson has had several nice radio interviews discussing it.

Mysteries of the Sacred Universe book, video, and interactive CD: In November of 2000, we published Mysteries of the Sacred Universe revealing advanced astronomy in the pages of Srimad-Bhagavatam. In addition to the book, we produced an interactive CD version with extensive computer graphics animations, over 250 color illustrations, in a hypertext format, with a search engine. Included on the CD and also sold separately is a 48-minute video filled with computer animations which summarizes the contents of both the book and the CD.

Mysteries of the Sacred Universe demonstates that the Srimad-Bhagavatam contains unexpected depths of knowledge in ancient cosmology. We show Bhagavata cosmology is a sophisticated system, with multiple levels of meaning that encode at least four different astronomical, geographical, and spiritual world models. Comparison with the ancient traditions of Egypt and the Near East shows early cultural connections between India and these regions—including a surprisingly advanced science. However, quantitative science is only part of the picture. Mysteries of the Sacred Universe also offers a clear understanding of how the spiritual dimension was integrated into ancient Indian cosmology.

The book is summarized in an article printed in Back to Godhead magazine (Nov.–Dec. 2000).

Many people have expressed great appreciation of Mysteries of the Sacred Universe:

Professor Subash Kak of Louisiana State University writes, "Mysteries of the Sacred Universe" is a very original book, and it represents an important advance in the understanding of the cosmology described in the famed Bhagavata Purana of India. Thompson looks at this cosmology from several points of view and he presents a compelling case showing that this cosmology was intended to have multiple meanings that span the terrestrial, the astronomical, and the spiritual planes."

Bob Ledwidge, editor of Living Traditions in Australia, writes, "Traditional cosmologies are derided in this ��age of reason�� as being primitive and ignorant. We hear so often about how far man has come in his understanding and how little the ancients knew. Mysteries of the Sacred Universe is a challenge to this view. It takes the cosmology of the Srimad Bhagavatam, a holy text of Hinduism and decodes its many levels of meaning. What is discovered is in a word—awesome."

The initial printing of 1,000 books has sold out, and we printed another 1,000 which also sold out. About 1,200 CDs have been sold. The book (if we reprint it), CD, and video can all be ordered from our web site at sacreduniverse.com or by calling us at (386) 462-0466.

Alien Identities: Although there are many reports of UFOs and ETs, their humanoid inhabitants, some of which are verified independently by several credible witnesses and are accepted by scientists, modern science has offered no real explanation for the phenomena. The Vedic literature, specifically, the Mahabharata, Ramayana, and Srimad Bhagavatam, describes similar accounts of supernatural airplanes (vimanas) along with humanlike beings with similar mystical powers, but it also describes a world view in which all these phenomena can be easily accommodated, unlike the limited world view of modern science. Thus the Vedic literature has great explanatory value and should be considered seriously.

Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy: The universe as described in the Fifth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam seems strikingly different from the universe of modern astronomy. This book addresses this apparent conflict in detail, and outlines a systematic approach to understanding the Fifth Canto. Topics include the celestial geometry of Bhu-mandala, mystic powers and higher-dimensional realms, Vedic mathematical astronomy, the dating of Kali-yuga, space travel, the moon flight, astrophysical anomalies, and much more.

Mechanistic and Nonmechanistic Science: This book shows that the mechanistic paradigm of modern science cannot account for consciousness, inspiration, and the origin of living species. However, these are all tied together in a unified way by the fundamental paradigm of the Bhagavad-gita. The book includes both popular and technical chapters.

Forbidden Archeology: Over the past two centuries, researchers have found bones and artifacts showing humans like us existed millions of years ago. But scientists have suppressed, ignored, or forgotten these pieces of evidence. Prejudices based on current scientific theory have acted as a knowledge filter. Thus we have come to accept a picture of prehistory that is largely incorrect. Forbidden Archeology is a call for a change in today's rigid scientific mindset. Bringing to light a great number of long hidden artifacts and skeletal remains, the authors challenge us to rethink our understanding of human origins and the accepted methods of science itself. An abridged version of the book is available named The Hidden History of the Human Race.

Videos: In addition to the Mysteries of the Sacred Universe video, we also have produced several other videos: Mind and Brain, which discusses the phenomenon of consciousness, Models of Natural Selection, which shows that evolution by natural selection is highly unlikely, Simulated Worlds, which uses the analogy of a virtual reality to describe the embodied soul��s situation, and The Hidden History of the Human Race, which discusses some of the archaeological anomalies discussed in the book, how such evidence is suppressed, and the Vedic idea of human origins.

Richard L. Thompson, Ph.D. (Sadaputa Dasa), president, BI Alachua


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If you have any general questions, comments, or suggestions, you can call us at (386) 462-0466, FAX us at (386) 462-0463, or send e-mail to: [email protected]

[joe_doufu]

rteacher, I don't think you need to be reminded anymore. Your post is too long. Too long. One-paragraph executive summary, please.

[Rteacher]

et tu brute? ... And after I nominated you for a "Bo's Peabody Award" for "Best Avatar"? (Or maybe it was a "Dave's ESL Cafe Award" in the same category in the "Off Topic" forum...?)

Anyway, it's the first time anyone has brought that particular complaint to my attention. But, since I have a quasi-legal background - and these threads sometimes resemble civil procedings - my tactical response, when one party (in effect) asks for a discovery of evidence, is to dump an overwhelming amount of information to unsettle them...(It wasn't directed at innocent parties like you - but at that rambunctious "beaver" fella...)

[joe_doufu]

[the_beaver]

[EFLtrainer]

This thread has "proven" something: some people don't understand the difference between proof and reasoning.

[Rteacher]

According to the present context, any reasonable evidence constitutes "proof."

a : the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact b : the process or an instance of establishing the validity of a statement especially by derivation from other statements in accordance with principles of reasoning

Main Entry: reasoning
1 : the use of reason; especially : the drawing of inferences or conclusions through the use of reason
2 : an instance of the use of reason : ARGUMENT

Specifically, I'm responding to "beaver's" colorful but misinformed statement to the effect that no "scientific-minded" person would accept the Bhagavad-gita as conclusive truth. To prove that statement wrong, I need only come up with one indisputably scientific-minded person who (unlike John Lennon who started getting blasphemous near the end...) accepts the Gita as axiomatic truth spoken by the supreme authority (who resereves the right not to reveal Himself to those who are envious - like Yoko Ono...) I've already mentioned one such guy... So, the war is over, Happy Christmas, and I once again emerge triumphant with unsullied plume ( ) Of course, an extended discussion could still be had on what constitutes "real science," etc., - but I'll save that for another glorious day...

Here's more background info on Dr. Thompson:

Sadaputa Dasa (Richard L. Thompson, Ph.D.)

Sadaputa Dasa (Richard L. Thompson) was born in Binghamton, New York, in 1947. In 1974, he received his Ph.D. in mathematics from Cornell University, where he specialized in probability theory and statistical mechanics. He went on to do research in quantum physics and mathematical biology at the State University of New York at Binghamton, Cambridge University in the United Kingdom, and the La Jolla Institute in San Diego. He is the author of seven books and the producer of six videos on science and philosophy, and he has written many articles for scientific journals and for Back To Godhead, the magazine of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. His most recent book, Maya: The World As Virtual Reality, introduces a theory that this world is actually a virtual reality, a theory which can accommodate empirical evidence for many phenomena that contemporary theories of consciousness cannot. His previous book, Mysteries of the Sacred Universe, discusses evidence of advanced astronomical knowledge in India��s ancient texts known as the Puranas. He has designed exhibits using computer animation and multimedia techniques to present the Vedic cosmology and the Vedic world view to the general populace, and he is presently writing a book discussing the laws of physics and the nature and origin of life.

[the_beaver]

[Rteacher]

I prefer to think we're all just dust in the wind. You're too kind in honoring me with the title of "flake" - I'm not worthy (... &%**^$#$^*((*##**Merry Christmas!...)

[Rteacher]

"Beaver called you what?" "No, he didn't really mean it - Please give him another chance..."

[the_beaver]

[EFLtrainer]