Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Wrench]

Actually there is a general consensus that states that Women's brains are geared toward humanistic arts and Male Brains are geared towards spatial type tasks.

This is why you have more science/math/engineering students that are males. You also have a higher amount of graduates in the Humanistic fields that are female compared to males.


Its also a more or less known fact that women multitask better then males.

Man will devout their complete attention to one task. Where is women tend to divide time between tasks, which can be directly attributed from the history of women's rolls in society.

Or you can look at it from my point of view. Men only screw up one thing at a time where is women are more talented at screwing up multiple things at once.

[Ya-ta Boy]

The trouble with scientific research of this type is that they study groups and publish results for the group. Typically, they publish a graph with two over-lapping bell curves showing one test group has a stronger tendency for the trait being measured. That's all fine and well. Boys as a group are taller than girls as a group.

The problem with taking that directly into the classroom is that we don't teach 'the group'. We teach a bunch of individuals. In other words, if 'boys' are taller than 'girls', then I, at 5'8", never had a date with a 6'1" blond. She couldn't exist.

Taking a study that says girls are better at X than boys can be useful if you know how to use that information. Most of the time, it would seem, that kind of information is an example of when a little knowledge can be dangerous.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

There are so many exceptions that I hope no one approaches their classes with firm mindsets. I teach girls. There are smart ones and dim ones, bold ones and shy ones, ones with great attitudes and some with not-so-great attitudes. It's best not to generalise. When I taught hogwan the best class I ever had was all middle school boys and the worst (by far) was all middle school girls. I noticed that elementary girls were generally more attentive (though there were lots of exceptions both ways) - can't say the same for middle school but then I have limited experience with middle school boys and maybe lucked out with a few hogwan classes where the boys were really good.

Where there is clear discrimination, however, is on the part of many parents. Some of my students are headed to college diploma programmes because they have a brother their parents want to get into a more expensive four-year degree programme. Parents also lavish a lot more money on things for their boys, including education and things like trips overseas.

[SPINOZA]

It completely and utterly depends. Aptitude for English depends on the motivation of the individual. They're bo11ocks gender generalizations. One of my female students has been going to English Hagwons since kinder. Her English is sh1te. Reason: she's not interested. I've learnt a decent amount of Korean in the last month because I've got LOADS of motivation - no other reason. I don't believe in inherent aptitude for things - life's all about desire.

This morning, two girls in my grade 1 middle school class were absolutely appallingly behaved. I threatened them with corporal punishment and they said sorry immediately. I don't generally lose it with the kids but these two were being conspicuously wicked and a thrashing wouldn't have been undeserved at all. Girls can be absolutely foul.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

[desultude]

I think it depends on the age group. At university, I find I have excellent male students, and female as well, of course. But the male students have more assertive personalities, so they are more likely to push themselves in class, and have something interesting to say.

I get disappointed with my female students sometimes for their general silliness. Some of my them complained from my conversation class that the subjects for discussion were "too serious". I also has some complaints from a graduate class of all women, too- only a few of them, but it makes me wonder what they think they should be discussing in upper level conversation classes in university.

I was reading recently about a Scandinavian country where it is the women who excel at math and science. Culture has a huge effect on the outcome with humans, for, among other things, we utilize so little of our potential.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

[Shooter McGavin]

I find with my students that girls on average are better learners as they are less likely to goof around in class. Get a bad girl tho, and it's a nightmare, whereas the boys can be brought around. My all male classes are much easier to get a handle on then the all female classes who never stop gossiping the whole bloody time. It depends a lot on the individuals and the group dynamics involved.

I also find that the most creative and hilarious students I have are all male. At least with the classes I have, the girls are better at straight memorization, but the boys are better at seeing things in a more abstract way. From what I read on here, and in other online sources, and from what I've seen with the kids, Korean education promotes strict memorization as opposed to creativity and analytical skills. I suspect that something of a reorientation towards analytical skill development would cause many of these "trouble" boys to express themselves more positively, and the learning would better suit their abilities.

Just my unscientific, observational two cents.

[khyber]

my experience is that gr. 2-4 are the best to teach...sometime around gr.6-8 the hormone start going bananas and fun, rambuncious boys turn into naughty cry babies. And girls who were pleasant fun and talkative become overbearing, tempermental and talkative.

I think (since it seems that everyone is throwing in their two cents) that these studies that look into brain apparati (apparatum? apparatae?) are NOT meant to be guidebooks for instruction. These studies are done to understand "general" trends in populations and trying to use that info in a "Test group" as big as a single class of 30-40 kids is just ASKING for trouble.

Every class will learn in it's own way...hell, every STUDENT learns in his/her own way. So how could eduators also be expected to teach to gendeR? They're already hooped enough in trying to figure out individual needs!

For me:
Girls are much better behaved. Usually that aids in their ability to study, concentrate and listen..therefore, they often do better.

Boys: Boys, more talkative but DO manage to string together SOME kinda English while they're being disruptive (it helps in it's own way... :oops: :?: :? ?). They learn fine but rarely seem to internalize things very well.

We have FAR fewer girls here than boys BUT, if we were to bell curve that group, you'd find girls would be FAR outperforming the boys.
One LAST thing to note for our school: When the students would first join, GENERALLY speaking, the girls would start at a higher level.

<side story: We've had some boys that are prize winningly foolish though. One boy was given a test, stapled it together in the wrong order, half of the papers upside...left all but 2 questions blank and, despite having his book RIGHT in front of him, completely misspelled his name> good ol' june young.

oh...and to reply to the thread title?
Perhaps it's because the boy's really DO behave much worse (due to a variety of [ahem...parenting] outside factors)

[Karabeara]

I have to agree. Give me the kids anywhere before or after the horomone thing. Grade school is OK. High school is OK.

Middle school is an evil hell.

[n3ptne]

God I hate the gender debates, food for thought though:

Men are typically (in terms of statistical variance, IQ) better than women when it comes to abstract thinking. Further to the point, all of the articles suggest that men are more "left brain orientated", the side which deals with logic, organization, etc. Specifically contained within the left hemisphere are Boca's area, and Wernicke's. These regions are the predominant ones when dealing with language skills.

Now, any scientific research that suggests men or women are typically more or less left/right brained is, for the most part, psuedo-science. However, while not addressing the validity of the research, if men *ARE* more left brain thinkers, men would logically have a greater talent with language.

Supporting this fact? Nearly all, though some exceptions do exist, truly great writers have been men. I have nothing against women, love them to death, but there is no argument to be made here... None compare to Shakespeare, Joyce (if anyone says Woolf, uhhhh) etc.

Now, the argument can be made that women have been oppressed and not given a voice over the centuries, and that as a result its logical they haven't been as prolific. Make it, fine, I don't care, this is a silly argument anyway. But none do compare.

Anyway, having thus defended my gender in the realm of stupidity I now find myself, I have also noticed that my female students are far superior. And I'd like to throw in a far more palatable reason, which is far more logical and intelligent than psuedo gender science: Females are simply (especially here in Korea, never taught in the US so I can't speak across the board) much more receptive to being taught. They listen to me and pay more attention, furthermore they aren't "threatened" by me like many of the male students (I don't see this in the younger ones, but definately in the older ones).

Men, in my experience, are much more independent creatures when it comes to thinking/learning/working. They hate (or maybe its just me) criticism, or being told to not do one thing in lieu of another. They keep more of a distance, and are much harder to get close to, whereas my girls are much more receptive (though this could be because I'm a tall, blue eyed good looking white man and they're about that age). Anyway, for whatever reason, the girls let me teach them, even ask me to, and the boys make me work to teach them. The girls do their homework more too. But I don't think they're smarter, they just show their smarts more easily.

And as for female teachers, who for the obvious reason some of the above arguments will not apply to? You're living in a male dominated society that, at least subtlely, teaches that women are inferior to men. My kids recently did up a resume, and on it they put their parents education level. Of the hundred I looked at, around 95% of the females had a college education, of that 95% about 5-10% had a job other than "housewife", and of that 5-10% nearly 100% of them were "teachers", with only a few nurses. Of the fathers? Engineers, doctors, dentists, etc. This isn't a knock on Korea, but it is the reality of the culture at the moment.... and you live here, as a woman (a white woman no less). Does it really suprise you that the female students respond to you, and work harder for you? But once again, this doesn't denote intelligence.

Anyway, even to this there are exceptions. I have some outstanding males, and some utterly worthless women. And I do teach to gender, not intentionally but my style is, as I said, much more receptive to girls, though this shouldn't suggest I don't consciousally go out of my way to play to the boys.... showing them how to dribble a basketball between their legs, paper airplanes, and other "disruptive, yet masculine" activities/feats (belching, etc) that will slowly wear down their defenses and let me get close enough to teach them.

[joe_doufu]

[jaderedux]

I also teach Middle School boys. I taught in a hogwan for a year so I have some experience with girls but not alot.

Observations I have made:

1. Boys want to compete. Give them a game and something to chuck at each other and they will try to speak english for the sheer joy of throwing a small soccer ball at their friends.

2. Boys including Middle School third years will do back flips while repeating the Magna Carta for a choco pie. All teen age boys are empty vats of starvation. I grew up with 4 brothers and this is true in all cultures. Classes have been known to self-police with the single threat of no prizes at the end of the week.

3. Boys are exciting. Hard to manage and when you have proven you are the "alpha" classroom discipline is a piece of cake. While it can be fun, noisy and crazy, control must always be yours. Boys will tear a weak teacher apart. I see them do it to these quiet, shy and reserved little gals straight out of Teachers uni.

4. When boys decide they like learning English they are single minded in their determination and fire. They will constantly try to talk in English. Babbling or not. They will struggle with sentence after sentence and stand at your desk until you talk to them. They will dog your every step. Bring their homework for you to check.

5. Boys don't care about Su-jin and the crap in the book but talk about wrestling, fighting, soccer, vomit, bodily functions and the english flies about the room rapid fire.

6. Boys tend to anger quickly and forget. I have had a student be a complete jerk in one class and fine the next. All punishments forgotten and big old love fest.

7. Boys will think outside the box because the book (box) is borning. They are terrible at concentration but walk around and ask them how many girlfriends this friend has and the English fest begins. They love to insult each other and now they can do it in two languages. Oh "Miss Jade his girlfriend is ugly." He is a casanova he has 10 girlfriends.

We are integrating next year with girls. Alot of the teachers are so happy because they are veterans of girl schools. They tell me how quiet they are and how emotionally attached they get to teachers. Emphasis on quiet.

I don't know if anything can beat the hemming and hawwing of a teenage boy when he gives you a letter on teachers day or pepperos on November 11th. It is so cute and sincere and something straight from a Norman Rockwell painting.

I like the challenge of teaching boys. You just have to find a different way to reach them. I suppose I will have to do the same next year with the girls. It is about approach. Gender to me seems irrelevent when teaching here...but the approach isn't. To me boys are easier to teach. Straight forward and direct. They are active and willing to be more spontaneous which is not really encouraged here.

The girls I taught in the hogwan were pouty, whiny and sullen. But maybe I got a bad lot but the least favorite classes were the teen girls. (insert shrug) We will see next year.

Jade

[Yu_Bum_suk]

I think you'll find points 1-4 apply very much to girls as well. Structured learning and getting them to do the dialogue about Sujin and Minho is probably a bit easier. As for the quiet thing - I have some classes that are very quiet but others, especially a few first and second grade MS classes, where I'd be in trouble if I didn't have a naturally loud voice. Put 35 of them together in a room and it can get very noisy very fast if you're not on top of things.

Another thing I'm discovering at Christmas time is that girls really love to sing. I have to disagree completely about the lack of competitiveness in girls. I've had grade 3 HS classes that were completely asleep when I walked in and were completely attentive for the last 15 minutes of a lesson because I made a game of something.