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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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 Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 6:11 am Post subject: |
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Grotto,
No matter how much you mock, insult, and argue, God loves you. You don't hurt me when you scorn His grace, you hurt Him.
And that's the power of His grace, you can hate me for what i stand for, but I can still love you.  |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
Grotto,
No matter how much you mock, insult, and argue, God loves you. You don't hurt me when you scorn His grace, you hurt Him.
And that's the power of His grace, you can hate me for what i stand for, but I can still love you. |
Dude, let me give you some advice.
I'm in favor of religion, even the tripe that you and Rteacher spout. If you want to win converts don't preach or be didactic. Just do your thing and if your thing is cool people will respond. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
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| "I believe God has the best plan because I believe god has the best plan" |
Like I said,
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This inspiration was through grace and not works. All other plans for salvation is through works.
I prefer grace. |
God has given us the capacity to decide what is truth and what is not. What you choose is up to you, but I prefer a religion based upon grace. It is this grace that separates it from other religions. Christianity is about receiving God's love and walking in the freedom of this knowledge. Jesus could not have been a prophet. Either He was the son of God or a demon. No other choice. Therefore if you are to say He is the son of God, then you have to walk in His words.
"I am the way, the truth and life and no man has the Father but through me."
The gift of Christ was and is free. There is nothing you can do that will allow you to earn this gift. You don't have to be "enlightened", you don't have to chant so many prayers in the day and you don't have to offer sacrifices to idols for safety.
All you have to do it be loved and this is why Jesus said it was the only way. Arumdamneyo! |
You've simply "decided" that grace is better than works. This choice is entirely arbitrary. Now your position looks like this...
I believe God has the best plan because it's based on grace not works. I believe grace is better than works because I believe grace is better than works.
In the end, you are simply intolerant. The core of your religion is a denial of the validity of all other religions. This kind of thought makes you repulsive, bigotted, fascist, totalitarian, and even dangerous. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| I'm in favor of religion, even the tripe that you and Rteacher spout. If you want to win converts don't preach or be didactic. Just do your thing and if your thing is cool people will respond. |
Thanks, but the word of God does not come back void. It goes forth and accomplishes everything it was meant to do. Not everyone will respond to the gospel, because not everyone loves the light, but some will. Maybe, 20 or 30 years from now, but they will. 
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| You've simply "decided" that grace is better than works. This choice is entirely arbitrary. |
No entirely arbitrary. Those who love truth will be drawn to the gospel of grace.
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| I believe God has the best plan because it's based on grace not works. I believe grace is better than works because I believe grace is better than works. |
I guess if you want to box me into parameters that you can understand.
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| In the end, you are simply intolerant. The core of your religion is a denial of the validity of all other religions. This kind of thought makes you repulsive, bigotted, fascist, totalitarian, and even dangerous. |
Actually the core of our gospel is that God is love. He so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that who soever believes in Him shall have everlasting life. This is the core of it, that God loved us to save us from our ignorance. In the center of this journey is a being who so loves us that He died upon a cross for us.
Actually, totalitarian people are those who tell others what they have to believe through intimidation and insults. I have never told you what you have had to believe. You have a choice to believe. I am not enforcing you to believe in it or not. That is your choice. I am only explaining the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
No entirely arbitrary. Those who love truth will be drawn to the gospel of grace. |
Yes it is arbitrary. I love truth, but Im not drawn to the gospel of grace. Where is your theory now? I want some "logical proof" that proves causative connection between loving truth and being drawn to the gospel of grace. You see, billions of people round the world would go on record saying they love truth, yet much less of them are drawn to the gospel of grace. There does not seem to be a connection there. Unless of course you're going to say "AHA! But you don't really even know what truth is!". In which case it seems we really can't have a sensible discussion with you.
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Actually the core of our gospel is that God is love. He so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that who soever believes in Him shall have everlasting life. This is the core of it, that God loved us to save us from our ignorance. In the center of this journey is a being who so loves us that He died upon a cross for us. |
Well if it's not the core then it's fundamental that God is the only way. That amounts to intolerance of other religions. Every single culture on earth has had a religion, from almost the beginning of humanity. And you have the arrogance to feel that your particular one is somehow the only valid one. The insanity of it beggars belief.
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Actually, totalitarian people are those who tell others what they have to believe through intimidation and insults. I have never told you what you have had to believe. You have a choice to believe. I am not enforcing you to believe in it or not. That is your choice. I am only explaining the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. |
I can see I'll have to break things down really simply for you. No of course it's directly the same a totalitarian form of government. But it is the same in principle. In the sphere of religion, it is the equivilant of totalitarianism. That is, my way or the high way, no questions asked. This is profoundly intolerant. It displays monsterous ignorance of the reality of the world, and how religion has been part of all cultures sinse the dawn of time. It displays monsterous cultural arrogance to feel that your group and your group alone have found the answer, and all other groups must eventually take up your way or be bannished to the fiery pit forever. I guess in your ideal world everyone would be christian huh? Think of the cultural distruction that would cause! You would bulldoze a huge part of the color and diversity of the worlds cultures, and have it all a monochrome grey, all the same. Cultures have had religion as one of the central part of thier identity for ever, and you would take that away and replace it with something foreign. This is cultural imperialism, this is religious totalitarianism.
Congratulations, you are the most breathtakingly ignorant person I have ever met online. Im surprised you're able to tie your shoelaces. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Yes it is arbitrary. I love truth, but Im not drawn to the gospel of grace. Where is your theory now? I want some "logical proof" that proves causative connection between loving truth and being drawn to the gospel of grace. You see, billions of people round the world would go on record saying they love truth, yet much less of them are drawn to the gospel of grace. There does not seem to be a connection there. Unless of course you're going to say "AHA! But you don't really even know what truth is!". In which case it seems we really can't have a sensible discussion with you. |
Truth is this,
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.
and this,
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
Once again, you don't want to accept it as truth then you have to face the consequences of these actions.
You want logical proof? Determine for yourself if it is logical.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=47348&start=75
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| Well if it's not the core then it's fundamental that God is the only way. That amounts to intolerance of other religions. Every single culture on earth has had a religion, from almost the beginning of humanity. And you have the arrogance to feel that your particular one is somehow the only valid one. The insanity of it beggars belief. |
I guess it is the most intolerant, tolerant religion there is. There is only one way to salvation, but anyone can come. You bring up good points, but when you break down each of these other religions down, you will see an intolerance of its own.
Regardless, your argument that teaches acceptance of all other religions is wrong. Many other religions teach on their own seperate plan to salvation. Through works. Your argument is faulted in theory and thus a disguise for something else. I think Buddhism has a plan where everyone can come, but it is still based upon works. A hierachy of sorts.
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| I can see I'll have to break things down really simply for you. No of course it's directly the same a totalitarian form of government. But it is the same in principle. In the sphere of religion, it is the equivilant of totalitarianism. That is, my way or the high way, no questions asked. |
What faith isn't like this? Who believes in something that they don't think would be the best for everyone? You obviously believe in a better plan and so need to preach on your own theory.
However, I do agree with you, the kingdom of God is a benevolent dictatorship. God is the supreme ruler and we are the subjects. It will be an aristocracy and their will be a governing party in Heaven. Those who walk in the greatest power of love in this life will walk in the greatest level of authority in the next. This in itself shapes itself up to be a democracy ruled by love, servanthood and compassion. Where the wisdom of God will be glorified forever.
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| This is profoundly intolerant. It displays monsterous ignorance of the reality of the world, and how religion has been part of all cultures sinse the dawn of time. It displays monsterous cultural arrogance to feel that your group and your group alone have found the answer, and all other groups must eventually take up your way or be bannished to the fiery pit forever. |
The amazing part of truth is that it is tied to freedom. If what I believe is wrong and a lie, than the truth of this universe will eventually overcome my delusions. For the truth shall set us free. If I do teach truth, then the principles that I tell others will continue to root itself in society until the return of Christ.
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| I guess in your ideal world everyone would be christian huh? Think of the cultural distruction that would cause! You would bulldoze a huge part of the color and diversity of the worlds cultures, and have it all a monochrome grey, all the same. |
God's kingdom is of | | |
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