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Philosophy: "does the tree make a sound?"
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marlow



Joined: 06 Feb 2005

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a Tree Falls - Bruce Cockburn


Rain forest
Mist and mystery
Teeming green
Green brain facing labotomy
Climate control centre for the world
Ancient cord of coexistence
Hacked by parasitic greedhead scam -
From Sarawak to Amazonas
Costa Rica to mangy B.C. hills -
Cortege rhythm of falling timber.

What kind of currency grows in these new deserts,
These brand new flood plains?

If a tree falls in the forest does anybody hear?
If a tree falls in the forest does anybody hear?
Anybody hear the forest fall?


Cut and move on
Cut and move on
Take out trees
Take out wildlife at a rate of species every single day
Take out people who've lived with this for 100,000 years -
Inject a billion burgers worth of beef -
Grain eaters - methane dispensers.

Through thinning ozone,
Waves fall on wrinkled earth -
Gravity, light, ancient refuse of stars,
Speak of a drowning -
But this, this is something other.
Busy monster eats dark holes in the spirit world
Where wild things have to go
To disappear
Forever

If a tree falls in the forest does anybody hear?
If a tree falls in the forest does anybody hear?
Anybody hear the forest fall?
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anyway



Joined: 22 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The simple answer : Chuck Norris hears each and every tree fall in the forest.
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Chow



Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Location: Cheongju

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Berkely continued to used the "to be is to be perceived" maxim as a proof for the existence of God (if memory serves). He concluded that since it is patently absurd (prior to quantum theory) to conclude that an object doesn't exist unless it is being observed, that God perceives all . . . .

It's been awhile . . . . I could be wrong.
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SPINOZA



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're correct, Chow.
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The Cube



Joined: 01 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..

Last edited by The Cube on Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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VanIslander



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"patent nonsense"


to quote the philosopher in my signature
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Bee Positive



Joined: 27 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chow wrote:
Berkely continued to used the "to be is to be perceived" maxim as a proof for the existence of God (if memory serves). He concluded that since it is patently absurd (prior to quantum theory) to conclude that an object doesn't exist unless it is being observed, that God perceives all . . . .

It's been awhile . . . . I could be wrong.



Bingo!

And from Saint Thomas Aquinas:

"Ex divina pulchritudine esse omnium derivatur."

The being of all things derives from the beauty of God.

I read this kind of thing and it makes the hair on my hands and forearms stand up on end. It's got to be true because it's too compellingly beautiful not to be.

To paraphrase very roughly from a very strange film which I once saw, "Being Catholic doesn't mean that you're dumb. It means that you HAVE AN IMAGINATION." (Gerard Reve, De derde man--Dutch, dramatized novel: The Third Man.)

There cannot be no one present to hear the tree fall. God is always there.


BEE POSITIVE
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Grimalkin



Joined: 22 May 2005

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm gonna go with the Quantum Theory answer
i.e. that it's unknowable in the absence of a perceiver and that when there is a perceiver that affects the outcome.

I think it's basically the same problem as schrodinger's cat.
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SPINOZA



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some excellent contributions, folks. It gives me pleasure to discuss these weighty matters with men of taste and discernment.

But...the emphasis of the thread hasn't been addressed really: why does the question assume that events occur in the physical world, indeed that a physical world exists at all, in the absence of a seer, yet questions these events making a noise in the absence of a hearer? I just don't get it. It's all perception. cheers.
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