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| The death penalty |
| For |
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25% |
[ 10 ] |
| Against |
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67% |
[ 27 ] |
| Don't care |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Don't know |
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7% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 40 |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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 Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject: The death penalty |
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http://edition.cnn.com/2006/LAW/01/03/execution.dna.ap/index.html
Are you for, against, or just don't care about the death penalty?
EDIT
This is not a question about America or any other question. I am asking are you for/against the idea. I'd like to see the results before it gets hijacked. This does not stop you from posting information from different countries (ie my post shows the problems and it just happens to be in the States). Another big one lately has ofcourse been the Singaporian death penalty laws.
There are plenty of America/Canada bashing threads you can bring this up in.
Last edited by laogaiguk on Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| It's just wrong, any "culture of life" that supports the death penalty is so clearly wrought with hypocrisy they can clearly not be respected. Many innocent individuals have been executed around the world and its barbaric that a western democracy such as the US is on the same level as Saudi Arabia or China. Savages. |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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What civilised countries still retain it? I know of only one.
Are there others? If they retain the punishment on the statute book, is it ever implemented? |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| I think the argument for the death penalty is that it makes the victim's families feel better. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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I think that if you oppose the death penalty, you must also oppose abortion considering that both mean the end of a life for which someone else is responsible.
I'm just a big fan of death, so I say "Fry, baby. Fry." |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: The death penalty |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
EDIT
This is not a question about America or any other question. I am asking are you for/against the idea. I'd like to see the results before it gets hijacked. This does not stop you from posting information from different countries (ie my post shows the problems and it just happens to be in the States). Another big one lately has ofcourse been the Singaporian death penalty laws.
There are plenty of America/Canada bashing threads you can bring this up in. |
I was hoping you'd say something like this. I can respect this.
I think the death penalty is extremely complex and problematic. Generally, I'm against it, say, 99% of the time. Then there're exceptions like Jeffrey Dahmer and repeat child sex offenders of the worst sort, for example. And it becomes a question of the good of the tribe as a whole. I, for one, would have lost no sleep if I had been asked to execute Dahmer.
Who are we to judge this? I don't know that we are fit to make this decision. But who else is going to do it? Jesus? When? Why didn't he care enough to intervene when Manson was cutting Sharon Tate's baby out of her womb?
I also like what Plig says, too. Vocal critics of the death penalty make little comprehensive sense, at least in the U.S., when they insist that no one has the right to decide who lives and dies, are also the ones who advocate that a woman can have an abortion anytime she wants -- even as a birth control method. On the other hand, those who scream that life is precious and no one should ever have an abortion under any circumstances at all, also seem to have no prob throwing the switch in places like Texas or Florida. They backpeddle and insist that life is so precious that sometimes it's necessary to take life in order to save life.
At least we can arrive at the crux of the matter through these conflicting positions, however: what should we do or not do in those special cases and who gets to define them in the first place (for example, what to do with a guy like Dahmer or Manson, or a woman carrying a seriously deformed fetus, destined to live a life of surrering)? That's where all the controversy lies in the U.S. anyway. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| There is a huge difference between anti-abortionists being for the death penalty and pro-abortionists being against. The biggest difference is that the pro-abortionists don't see the fetus as life yet. Whether a fetus is life or not, I am not nearly capable to say, but you can be pro-abortion and anti-death penalty quite easily. The opposite can't be said for anti-abortion/pro-death penalty people. The people that are being put to death are most definitely human (even if they are at the absolute bottom of what we define as human). |
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keithinkorea
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| There is a huge difference between anti-abortionists being for the death penalty and pro-abortionists being against. The biggest difference is that the pro-abortionists don't see the fetus as life yet. Whether a fetus is life or not, I am not nearly capable to say, but you can be pro-abortion and anti-death penalty quite easily. The opposite can't be said for anti-abortion/pro-death penalty people. The people that are being put to death are most definitely human (even if they are at the absolute bottom of what we define as human). |
You hit the nail on the head there. In some countries it is illegal to have an abortion. People get raped by some scumbag and are they really going to want to carry his baby? What if they're abused by a relative and become pregnant? Would any reasonable person expect the mother to love that child? Abortion is not a good thing and shouldn't be used as a form of birth control but it is incredibly ignorant to make it illegal. Abortion is a bad thing, pro lifers are generally a pretty bad thing too.
As for the death penalty it is barbaric, it's not a deterrent to crime and many innocent people have been murdered by governments. If someone is really beyond a shadow of a doubt guilty of a hideous crime I'd rather that they rot in jail for the remainder of their lives, reminded everyday of why they are not allowed to mix with civilised people.
Pro lifers are often against euthanasia as well! They'd rather a innocent brave person suffering an incurable and painful disease lives in suffering than is allowed to choose assisted suicide. If an animal is terminally sick and in pain we allow it being put down, why treat animals with more dignity than people?
Death penalty is evil and uncivilised. Abortion is bad but sometimes necessary. Assisted suicide is humane. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:39 am Post subject: |
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I think that the Pro-lifers being Pro-DP and the Pro-choicers being anti-DP are the same.
I can see both sides, yet I don't agree with either of them. Pro-choice/anti-DP people feel that a woman's right to choose supercedes the life of the baby in her womb. They also feel that the DP is barbaric and antiquated, or that innocent people could be executed by mistake. Fact is that if the woman did nothing, that life would come to fruition. The woman has to actually kill the fetus inside of her. That is no different than killing a legitimate murderer, in my opinion. (I say "legitimate" in the "Seven cops, you, your mother, his mother, DNA, videotape, and the Pope all watched the murder so there's no doubt of his guilt" sense.)
Here's what the pro-life/pro-DP people think... They think that the fetus is a life. Not only that, but that life is innocent in the eyes of God. (I only use that because most pro-lifers base their feelings on their religion.) The criminal that is executed is guilty and has commited a horrible crime against society. However, I guess they miss the whole "Vengeance is mine" part of the Bible. Therefore, they see the loss of the innocent life as bad, but the death of the guilty man as good.
Therefore, in my opinion, they are the same. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:52 am Post subject: |
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Another problem is that if there is a "God", then he is killing atleast 20% of all conceived children. And 20% is the reported number (who knows how many it really is, with many people not reporting or just not knowing). Why would a "God" create lots of people and then kill them after a couple weeks to a month. God aborts fetuses all the time??? I don't really want to turn this into an abortion thread though.
By the way, has anyone read the article I posted. What do you think if we put 99 really bad people to death but 1 innocent person (these are completely random numbers, make the bad guys as large as you want, it doesn't change the question) is also put to death. Is this an acceptable loss? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| Death penalty is evil and uncivilised. |
I am not comfortable with the death penalty myself, but what does one do with people who murder others in jail? I suppose throw them in solitary. Still, I wouldn't call the death penalty substantially more evil than abortion, as long as there is extensive due process. Mistakes will be made, and in the cases where the due process is lacking one wonders if it was the fact that a man was put to death that is morally outrageous, rather than the fact that he was innocently sentenced to death.
Anyway, I am for seeing as few abortions and as few death penalties being carried out as possible. |
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Bee Positive
Joined: 27 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: |
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All that you need to know about the death penalty:
Inevitably, unavoidably, innocent people will be killed.
It was the death by hanging of a man subsequently proved innocent that turned public opinion against the death penalty in Britain decades ago.
Much more recently, the Republican governor of Illinois reversed his position and declared a moratorium on executions in his state after viewing evidence that several or more innocent men had been put to death there.
Exercise your imagination:
Your spouse, or child, or business associate, is killed.
The police arrest you.
A slick, well-paid lawyer elaborates a devastating legal assault on you.
You argue your innocence in vain.
The noose is waiting.
Do you support the death penalty now?
THAT'S ALL THAT NEEDS TO BE SAID ON THE MATTER!
Long live life!
BEE POSITIVE |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| Inevitably, unavoidably, innocent people will be killed. |
You could say the same about a number of things. We allow people to drive cars, and inevitably, unavoidably, innocent people, many of them children, will be killed. Yet we accept this risk that comes with allowing people to drive around in what are, effectively, lethal weapons.
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| It was the death by hanging of a man subsequently proved innocent that turned public opinion against the death penalty in Britain decades ago. |
Actually, public opinion has rarely been, and is not today, against the death penalty in the UK. A large majority of people support it, but the enlightened politicians vote against it every time. In the US, at least on this issue, democracy rules, and the people decide. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Is this an acceptable loss? |
No. But it is an imperfect world. And that's all there is to it.
Little consolation to the innocent person who gets executed. Little consolation, also, to the guy who is forced to pay child support on a child that isn't his either. There are several issues like this.
On abortion, in extreme cases, there are some of the more radical feminists having abortions merely to prove a point. Moreover, they have urged married women to have abortions for the sake of their career, and to feel no obligation to consult with their husbands either. How is this act so much more profound than the death of an innocent man, wrongly convicted?
As my high school psych teacher once explained: "how it is" does not cede anything to "how it should be." |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| Is this an acceptable loss? |
On abortion, in extreme cases, there are some of the more radical feminists having abortions merely to prove a point. |
Only a man could think that a woman would want to lie down and have a bunch of doctors and nurses go into her cunt and rip out a live little fetus from her womb to prove a point to nobody.
Abortions aren't easy and comfortable. I don't think it's believable that a woman would have one just for fun. |
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