Korean Job Discussion Forums :: View topic - Violence Grips Sydney, Korean Community Spared

Speak Korean Now!

Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!

Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"

FAQ

Memberlist

Usergroups

Profile

Violence Grips Sydney, Korean Community Spared
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 ... , 9, 10, 11 Next

Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author

Message

bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:06 am Post subject:

Quote:

What I have a problem with is your insistence that ALL muslim immigration be halted due to some kind of 'predetermination' you believe muslims have to refuse to integrate into society

Go to Malmo, Rotterdam or Bradford and see this non-integration for yourself. Then ask yourself, whether such non-integration on an even larger scale can possibly be a good thing for Western society.

Quote:

I challenge you to find one other person who wants to take this issue beyond the Lebanese/Sydney stage and make a grand condemnation of ALL MUSLIM IMMIGRATION.

Perhaps not in Australia yet, although you will no doubt reach such a point as your muslim population increases with the inevitable conflicts that will bring. In Europe, particularly in France and the Netherlands, there are millions of people, who after realising what muslim immigration is doing to their nations, hold precisely the same views as myself.

bangbayed

Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:47 am Post subject:

Yeah, didn't think you could either. Good luck with your issues with muslim people, buddy!

bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:56 am Post subject:

Do you seriously think there aren't people in Holland, after Van Gogh, or France, after the riots, who think that muslim immigration should be stopped? And if you want names try Geert Wilders, Pym Fortyn, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Both Geert Wilders and Ayaan Hirsi Ali live under 24-hour police protection, due to their criticism of Islam and muslim immigration. What does that tell you about how muslim immigration has affected Dutch politics and society? Then there are the millions of ordinary Europeans, in places like Malmo and Rotterdam who hold the same views.

Quote:

Good luck with your issues with muslim people, buddy!

I don't have 'issues' with muslim people, and I find your predictable liberal psycho-babble highly amusing. I have a problem with muslim immigration and can see with my own eyes the detrimental effect it is having on Western nations.

bangbayed

Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject:

bigverne wrote:

And if you want names try Geert Wilders, Pym Fortyn, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Both Geert Wilders and Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Don't think I've seen their names on this board! Laughing

If you think I'm amusing, check yourself out in a mirror sometime. PS, your argument is still lame: Condemning all muslim immigration due to the actions of a few hundred people in half a dozen countries is inductive reasoning at its weakest. And you dictating what you think should happen in my country (Canada) when you seem to have no idea of what muslim relations are like there makes you more "verne" than "big".

Last edited by bangbayed on Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:27 am; edited 1 time in total

bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:34 am Post subject:

Quote:

Condemning all muslim immigration due to the actions of a few hundred people in half a dozen countries is inductive reasoning at its weakest.

No, condemning muslim immigration on the basis that integration is far more problematic than with other groups and that it will lead to countries like France resembling Bosnia is simple common sense.

Quote:

And you dictating what you think should happen in my country (Canada) when you seem to have no idea of what muslim relations are like there makes you more "verne" than "big".

I have never dictated anything. All I am saying is wait until your muslim population grows before you start waffling on about what a 'success' it has been.

bangbayed

Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject:

Your ideas pretty much speak for themselves. I think everyone on this board can see that. Nice chatting with you.

bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:52 am Post subject:

You'll wake up one day. Probably around the time you realise that tolerance and freedom of conscience are concepts totally absent from the Islamic world. If you want to reach an understanding of why the growth of Islam in the West is such a bad idea, talk to people who know. Go talk to some Nigerian Ibo's or Coptic Christians about the tolerance and understanding that they have experienced from the religion of peace. Better yet, seek out some Pakistani Christians or Bengali Hindus and Sikhs. Then honestly ask yourself whether this is the kind of future you would like for your nation.

bangbayed

Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:13 pm Post subject:

bigverne wrote:

Probably around the time you realise that tolerance and freedom of conscience are concepts totally absent from the Islamic world.

If you think this issue is about reducing things to neocon strawman terms like "tolerance" and "freedom of consience", then you really have no idea what you're "protecting" western society from.

Quote:

If you want to reach an understanding of why the growth of Islam in the West is such a bad idea, talk to people who know. Go talk to some Nigerian Ibo's or Coptic Christians about the tolerance and understanding that they have experienced from the religion of peace. Better yet, seek out some Pakistani Christians or Bengali Hindus and Sikhs.

Whatever. I'm sure I could just as easily come up with a list of people who are sure that, rightly or wrongly, you shouldn't be spreading your seed either.

If your argument is that Islam has more blood on its hands, is the only one that has oppressed other religious minorities in its region, and is more dangerous than any other organized religion, I'm not the only one laughing in your face.

Quote:

Then honestly ask yourself whether this is the kind of future you would like for your nation.

Like I said, your sensationalistic warnings by comparing the future of Canada to present day Egypt, Nigeria and India just show how out of touch you are. Good luck, you'll need it to deal with reality.

Quote:

You'll wake up one day.

Tell you what - if I do, I'll give you a call. In the meantime, don't wait up.

bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject:

Quote:

If you think this issue is about reducing things to neocon strawman terms like "tolerance" and "freedom of consience", then you really have no idea what you're "protecting" western society from.

Lovely. Not only do you clearly not understand what a strawman is, but you totally avoid the point made. I happen to think that freedom of conscience and tolerance are fairly important. What we cannot tolerate however, is the kind of ruthless intolerance of dissent that is par for the course with Islam. I do know what I am protecting Western society from. The growth of a backward, reactionary ideology that stands against almost everything which makes the West what it is. Just take a look at almost all of the muslim countries on the planet. A couple of fledgling democracies in a sea of despotism, repression and intolerance.

Quote:

I'm sure I could just as easily come up with a list of people who are sure that, rightly or wrongly, you shouldn't be spreading your seed either.

Yet another childish and totally meaningless retort that adds nothing to the debate. I was making a point about the repression of religious minorities in Islamic countries, and that is the best you can do?

Quote:

If your argument is that Islam has more blood on its hands, is the only one that has oppressed other religious minorities in its region, and is more dangerous than any other organized religion, I'm not the only one laughing in your face.

You see, that is a strawman. Firstly, I am not analysing the historical record of Islam in comparison to other religions, so let's stop with that nonsense now shall we. But there is little doubt, that at the start of the 21st century, Islam does have more blood on its hands, does oppress religious minorities quite disgracefully and is more dangerous than any other organised religion. You could add to that list its incompatibility with democracy and rampant sexism. I'm sure you are not the only one 'laughing in my face', which is quite indicative of a widespread ignorance of Islam, and the triumph of PC moral equivalence over truth and evidence, and that is very sad.

Quote:

Like I said, your sensationalistic warnings by comparing the future of Canada to present day Egypt, Nigeria and India just show how out of touch you are.

Give it fifty or a hundred years and who knows what state your country will be in. Canada though has a relatively small muslim population, and for that, you should be grateful. Hopefully, you will be able to avoid the Islamification, and the descent into intolerance, repression and other Islamic hallmarks, that is Europe's suicidal fate.

bangbayed

Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject:

bigverne wrote:

you totally avoid the point made.

You're pretty good at that yourself, mate.

Quote:

The growth of a backward, reactionary ideology that stands against almost everything which makes the West what it is.

Why don't you just clarify just what exacty the West stands for.

Quote:

I'm sure I could just as easily come up with a list of people who are sure that, rightly or wrongly, you shouldn't be spreading your seed either.

I don't have any problems with adding a little spice to what must for others be a very unentertaining debate, do you?

Quote:

But there is little doubt, that at the start of the 21st century, Islam does have more blood on its hands, does oppress religious minorities quite disgracefully and is more dangerous than any other organised religion.

Nice deke. Almost got away with that.

Quote:

I'm sure you are not the only one 'laughing in my face'

You're used to that, are you? Very Happy

Quote:

and that is very sad.

Don't be so hard on yourself.

Quote:

I don't think I need to remind people what your language sounds like. Replace "muslims" with any other people and your words would gather many more negative responses. You are a coward to hide behind the current anti-muslim sentiment that has been so popular the last few years. When you attack them, you attack friends and neighbours I have known for years. Maybe if Europe had given muslims a warmer welcome, rather than making parties like the National Front popular, things might be different. But Canada, unlike Europe, is a nation of immigrants, and is a totally different country. Conversations with Europeans, as pleasant as they have been, only reinforces this idea.

bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:56 am Post subject:

Quote:

Replace "muslims" with any other people and your words would gather many more negative responses.

Yes, they would, and rightly so, because no other group of immigrants pose anywhere near the problems that muslim immigrants do.

Quote:

You are a coward to hide behind the current anti-muslim sentiment that has been so popular the last few years.

I am not hiding behind anything, but being quite explicit and honest in what policies I think should be adopted. Namely, ending, or at least severely limiting muslim immigration based on an objective analysis of its many shortcomings.

Quote:

Maybe if Europe had given muslims a warmer welcome, rather than making parties like the National Front popular

Apart from giving muslim immigrants free housing, education and healthcare, and bending over backwards to meet their cultural sensitivities, I don't see how much 'warmer' a welcome could have been given, bearing in mind that immigrants, from whatever ethnicity, are rarely welcomed with open arms anyway. Muslims received just as warm a welcome as Hindus, Sikhs and Chinese and they seem to have done just fine in the UK. Much of the recent anti-muslim sentiment is directly attributable to little things like 9-11, Madrid, 7-7, Theo Van Gogh's murder, the Rushdie Affair, riots in Paris, and the behaviour of Islamic clerics and communities in many European cities. Such animosity did not just appear out of thin air. Moreover, your argument is just a rehash of the pathetic 'if only we were nicer to them, they wouldn't bomb/rape/despise us' school of thought. Well, guess what, it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference. Integration would still not happen, and the cultural chasm between the West and Islam would not be bridged.

You may take the p*ss of my supposed 'apocalyptic' forecast, but Europe's future is not a bright one. In France, one third of new babies born there are muslim. What happens in 30-40 years time when you have a nation that is utterly divided upon ethnic and religious lines? I'm sure it will be a wonderful multicultural success story, just like Bosnia.

bangbayed

Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:10 am Post subject:

Quote:

Well, guess what, it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference. Integration would still not happen, and the cultural chasm between the West and Islam would not be bridged.

I guess Canada is just an anomaly then. Oh yeah, wait till my kids grow up. Okay, Nostradamus.

bigverne wrote:

In France, one third of new babies born there are muslim.

I'm sure you have a very sensible solution to this, as well as the muslims who are already there and have been for generations.

bigverne

Joined: 12 May 2004

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:26 am Post subject:

Quote:

I guess Canada is just an anomaly then.

What percentage of the Canadian population is muslim exactly? When a muslim population is small it has to pay lip service to Western notions of tolerance and democracy, and so the illusion the things are going along just fine will be enough to reassure the multiculturalists. When the muslim population grows to the size that it is in Europe the demands for concessions grow and the call to defend Islam becomes greater. So, Canda is no anomaly. You just not as far down the path of muslim enrichment as ourselves in Europe. But, being one of the most pathetically PC nations on earth I am sure you will be following us up that particular creek in no time.

Quote:

I'm sure you have a very sensible solution to this, as well as the muslims who are already there and have been for generations.

Yes, the vast amounts of money that are currently spent on housing, educating, curing, policing and imprisoning muslims could be better spent on offering such immigrants and their descendants a once only fee to return to muslim nations. The vast majority of muslims in France are eligible for foreign passports, so this would not be difficult to achieve. The alternative , to do nothing, is far, far worse.

bangbayed

Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:02 pm Post subject:

bigverne wrote:

No one's currently forcing them to stay, as far as I know. "Offering". You're really funny, buddy.

Oh, "PC". Ouch, that hurts! Rolling Eyes

patchy

Joined: 26 Apr 2005

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:47 am Post subject:

shakuhachi wrote:

patchy wrote:

shakuhachi wrote:

patchy wrote:

It also mentions race again in the next part where it states that out of 120 sexual assaults in Bankstown, where a high concentration of Muslim Lebanese live, 70 of those assaults were perpetrated by a white man (an Anglo-Australian).

Therefore it is not unreasonable to infer from these statistics that:

1) Gang rapes do not occur in highest frequency in areas where Muslim Lebanese live.

2) Out of the 120 rapes that occurred in a 2 year period in heavily Muslim Lebanese-populated Bankstown, 70 (or the majority) of the rapes were not committed by Muslim Lebanese people.

You seem to be suffering from logical retardation. It doesnt matter if there are more crimes in total number elsewhere - Lebanese are an ethnic minority so it is unlikely they will get anywhere near the total number.

Overseas-born Australians are underrepresented in crime, and they have been for the last 40 years - "Review of Commonwealth Law Enforcement Arrangements". http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Prod/Parlment/HansArt.nsf/d891a0806177d17eca256d100026e9aa/ca256d11000bd3aa4a25642800673e6b?OpenDocument

This means that Australian-born citizens (of which the majority are Anglos and Aboriginals) are OVER-REPRESENTED in crime.

Quote:

What is important is the amount of crimes committed by Lebanese per capita - it is the % of the community involved in criminal activity that determines the level of the problem, not the total number of crimes.

In a regional breakdown of gang rapes, rural areas had the highest incidence of gang rapes, and this is where fewer Muslim Lebanese reside.

Quote:

In the above 'statistics' (remember, you have not shown a primary source),

I have shown a primary source. I have clearly stated that these statistics come from the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics.

Quote:

may we assume that if 70 of the rapes were from non-lebanese, then 50 of them were committed by Lebanese? Which takes me to my next point.

No, you cannot assume that. All it says is that 70 of the 120 rapes in Bankstown in a 2-year period were committed by one man - an Anglo-Australian.

It doesn't say that these were the only rapes committed by a white person in that time period in Bankstown.

Quote:

patchy wrote:

The figures quoted in this report ARE "isolating" or singling out the Lebanese: it is talking about Bankstown where there is an overwhelmingly high concentration of Lebanese; and the the facts contained in these statistics appear to refute your (and others') anecdotally-based assertion that the Lebanese are responsible for a crime wave of gang rapes anbd rapes in general in NSW.

According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, only 13.7% of the population in Bankstown is Lebanese or has Lebanese ancestry. According to the statistics that you presented, it means that Lebanese are committing 40% of the rapes despite being only 13.7% of the population in Bankstown.

As I have pointed out, the statistics leave it wide open as to who committed the other 50 rapes. They could have been committed by whites, Asians, Middle Easterners or any combination of these nationalities. And BTW what percentage of Bankstown is white?

If you are going to do any assuming at all, a more reasonable assumption to make than the one that you have made that the rest of the 120 rapes were committed by people of one ethnicity, the Lebanese, would be that this man was not the only white rapist in Bankstown in that 2-year period, as Australian-born people are over-represented in crime, and gang rapes are more prevalent in rural areas where more Australian-born people live.

And if I were going to make generalizations of the kind that you do, I would make the generalization based on the fact that a lone white man was responsible for 70 rapes, that whites have a tendency to commit serial rapes (and gang rapes) more than other ethnicities in Australia.

Quote:

And I havent even mentioned your logical fallacy that Lebanese are only committing crimes in the areas they are in, indeed, Lebanese gangs often pile themselves into cars to commit crimes in other areas.

You have shown no evidence to back up your claim that Lebanese gangs travel to rural areas and engage in gang rape. There have been some famous cases of gang rapes in rural areas reported in the media over the years. Most of the perpetrators were of Anglo-Australian origin. This supports the general finding that the Australian-born are over-represented in crime and have been so for the last 40 years.

Quote:

patchy wrote:

Maybe you should apply the same racist (as you brazenly admit it is) sentiment to yourself and go back to Japan as you seem to lack "sympathy" for the Lebanese Australians who are being unfairly accused of something that is not borne out by the facts.

I am white, not Japanese.

Whatever country your ancestors are from is not important. What is important is that this is a thread about racism and you have accused me of racism and yet you are openly racist by telling Australians of non-Anglo ancestry they should go back to "their country". (And the aboriginals too who don't agree with you about anything you have said in this thread? Where do you suggest they go?)

Quote:

patchy wrote:

And you lack "sympathy" for non-white victims of rape as white Australians aren't the only people in Australia who are the victims of rape. You're racially selective in whom you show your "sympathy" to.

Where on earth do I lack sympathy with non-white victims of rape?! I feel sorry for anyone raped.

No, because you ignore in this discussion the non-white victims of rape. It is known that one Anglo man raped 70 people in Bankstown. From the population statistics of Bankstown, it can be surmised that not a small number of his victims were of ethnicities other than Anglo-Australian (unless he had some fetish for raping only women of a certain race). You don't show the same outrage against this man (or against his religion and culture) or the same sympathy for his victims that you do in the case of the Lebanese gang and their one white victim; for instance you don't call for decreased Anglo immigration to Australia or decreased Anglo emigration to other countries.

As I recall, you were accused in this forum of raping somebody once, a Korean lady (non-white) after you revealed you had sexual intercourse with her while she was inebriated and unconscious. You didn't express much sympathy for her when posters complained about your behavior.

You should tell yourself to leave this country instead of remaining here and being a hypocrite. I'm sure Korea doesn't need non-citizen rapists working and living amongst them, and especially one who is racially biased against them.

Quote:

However, white Australians are the main targets of Lebanese gang rape and crime, which is what we were discussing here.

Correction: in ONE case of a Lebanese gang, the target was a white woman.

Quote:

patchy wrote:

It's not very hard to have picked out I was a gyopo from my first posts here on Dave's; I never hid the fact I was. And you're not the only who picked up that I was a gyopo either. You seem quite obsessed about race, especially for someone who claims to be "non-racist", as you do.

You never came out and said you were.

Should I have to?

Quote:

The fact that I was able to pick you out right away on this faceless, raceless internet should tell you that you are acting out a stereotype.

patchy wrote:

And what stereotype is that? That people of Korean ethnicity defend people of another race or religion against unfair and racist accusations? What a BAD "stereotype".

Quote:

No, the one where the ethnic Korean has an inferiority complex towards the majority population expressed through hostility.

Well, I criticize Koreans aplenty too and I hardly think that means I have an inferiority complex towards Koreans.

�� , �� ǽİ� �ٺ�� ġ�� ȣ��ΰ� �ٸ�� ʸ� ȣ��̶�� ʽ��ϴ�. �� ⺻�� ο� �븳�� ̱��.
�׷��, �� ѱ�� ϰ� �� ʽ��ϴ�. '�ܱ�� ' �� ϴ� �ʴ� ��ض�. �� Ѽ�� 뼭 ��ϴϱ�.

This is the second time Shakuhachi has posted in Korean in reply to me.

Shakuhachi, what makes you think I know Korean?

Display posts from previous:

	Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 ... , 9, 10, 11 Next
Page 10 of 11

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe