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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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 Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Most people in India can speak 5 or 6 languages INCLUDING English. And they speak English VERY well, even though they claim that they do not. |
That really depends what part of India you are in. There are many poor areas where people can barely speak their own language.
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| While India has English as an official language, that doesn't mean that English is the native language of the taxi drivers (in fact I can pretty much guarantee it's not). |
That depends how you define native. If you define native as a persons first language then no, it is not their first language but if you define native as someone who speaks English like a native English speaker then yes they could be considered native speakers.
Many Indians learn English before the Critical Period that Chomsky proposed. Beofre this period children can learn languages like someone who speaks the language as a first language. I have read and have been told that in some areas students begin using only English in school during the first grade. This would allow them to develop native like qualities. |
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memorabilis
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:15 am Post subject: |
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To say that people can barely speak their own langauge is simply incorrect (and dare I say it a bit presumptuous). All native speakers are relative masters of their languages. Even those in poorer areas of India will most likely speak the language of neighbouring states and linguistic communities.
The Critical Period theory is pretty out of date. Gerald Neufeld puts forward the idea that adult learners are actually better learners than children, due to their higher cognitive skills.
Why do the Indian learners achieve a great deal of success in learning English? Because the need and they want to. |
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tzechuk
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:04 am Post subject: |
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Homer, you'll be surprised by just how many people in Hong Kong do NOT speak English all that well.
Despite the fact that HK was a UK colony, English was taught as a second language - much like here in South Korea. The emphasis was and is on grammar, writing etc., not so much on speaking, although I think that's changing a little.
Depending on my mood, when I am in Hong Kong, I use either Cantonese or English, especially when I go shopping - sometimes I just express myself a whole lot better in English if I am looking for something in particular. More often than not I get a sales girl looking totally blank at me, not understanding what I try to say and have to get her superviser to help. The only places that I've been to that have staff speak decent English are the expensive places like Lane Crawford.
Having said that, though, at least in Hong Kong taxi drivers understand you if you tell them your destination in English or if you tell them in Cantonese with a funny accent, they don't look at your like you are an idiot like they do here in Korea! |
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Homer
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:27 am Post subject: |
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Guess I just got lucky with the cabs I took when visiting HK...  |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| To say that people can barely speak their own langauge is simply incorrect (and dare I say it a bit presumptuous). All native speakers are relative masters of their languages. Even those in poorer areas of India will most likely speak the language of neighbouring states and linguistic communities. |
ha, isn't it a little presumptuous to say that all native speakers are relative masters of their language. Have you never heard a native English speaker who speaks English poorly? If you really believe this you must have spent your whole life in suburbia. Have you ever heard an old country farmer that only completed the sixth grade? In India and many other countries some poor people only have a few years of formal education. I know of one area outside of Cusco Peru where the children only go to school three months a year. You are trying to tell me that someone with limited formal education can master the language. Who are they learning it from? Their uneducated parents. I am sure that these people can communicate and live fine but the idea that they are masters of their language is going a little too far. |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| All native speakers are relative masters of their languages. |
So someone who knows half the words in their language that the average person knows is a master. I have no hard facts but I think it is easy to imagine that an uneducated person probably knows about half as many words as the average person who speaks that language. Are you trying to tell me that these people are masters of their language? Are you trying to tell me that you really believe that the people in the slums of Salvador, Brazil are masters of their language when they dropped out of school in sixth grade? It may be harder to debate this in terms of India since the local language may be limited in scope where most people are not educated but if we look at some South American countries, we can compare better since we can find a standard structure for the language. |
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Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| you only have to look at these boards to see a lot of people have a poor grasp of their own language.. so of those even get paid to teach it!! |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| so of those even get paid to teach it!! |
I guess we have already found one example. To be fair, some people don't take a lot of time to edit their post on here. Some people have better things to do than write a perfect post on Dave's. |
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Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
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| so of those even get paid to teach it!! |
I guess we have already found one example. To be fair, some people don't take a lot of time to edit their post on here. Some people have better things to do than write a perfect post on Dave's. |
Found one example of what? a typo? congratulations! there is a difference between a typo and not knowing how something is spelt or having awful grammar. |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| how something is spelt or having awful grammar. |
I cannot spell very well but that is why I have a dictionary. |
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