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Logic, get some.
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laogaiguk



Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:33 pm    Post subject: Logic, get some. Reply with quote
It seems we have a few people on this board who wouldn't know what logic is if it bit them in the butt. I have seen many people say A is B therefore B is A and have been called on it. It doesn't work that way.



Consider the larger orange circle is "All real numbers". From this you can see that...

1)All prime numbers are real numbers.
2)All real numbers are not prime numbers.

Another example...

1)All apples are fruits.
2)All fruits are not apples.

I know this may seem condescending, but I have seen this argument atleast 3 times since last week.
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Hater Depot



Joined: 29 Mar 2005
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
On the other hand, I recently saw a guy on Wikipedia argue that A = B and B = C does not imply that A = C.
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Satori



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I wouldn`t be jumping on a soap box just yet. You`re reasonably fast and loose with logic yourself young pilgrim.
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laogaiguk



Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Satori wrote:
I wouldn`t be jumping on a soap box just yet. You`re reasonably fast and loose with logic yourself young pilgrim.

If you are talking about the last fight we had, no I wasn't. I just wasn't going to go into it with you. You did prove me wrong, but there was nothing wrong with my logic. Just my hypothesis which was wrong. That is how the entire scientific community works. People always make mistakes, as I said I did. You logic your way through it and see if it is true or false. By the way, your post again is quite confrontational, don't you think? You seem to be nothing more than a troll looking for a fight.
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Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:51 am    Post subject: ... Reply with quote
On another note,

I once found a stand-alone online logic course that took you through the fundamentals quite nicely.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find it again.

Can anyone provide a link to such a thing?

And I do mean one of just pure logic. There is one out there for atheists.

And, from Kyobo, I bought an Introduction to Logic book that was made by Christians for Christians to argue Christianity. I keep that as an interesting curio.

Moreover, I would argue that every core university-level curriculum should require a logic course for all undergraduates. Is that so wrong? Wouldn't we produce better graduates the world over if such a thing were in place? That would be SO logical.

Would it not?
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laogaiguk



Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: ... Reply with quote
Nowhere Man wrote:
On another note,

I once found a stand-alone online logic course that took you through the fundamentals quite nicely.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find it again.

Can anyone provide a link to such a thing?

And I do mean one of just pure logic. There is one out there for atheists.

And, from Kyobo, I bought an Introduction to Logic book that was made by Christians for Christians to argue Christianity. I keep that as an interesting curio.

Moreover, I would argue that every core university-level curriculum should require a logic course for all undergraduates. Is that so wrong? Wouldn't we produce better graduates the world over if such a thing were in place? That would be SO logical.

Would it not?


I totally agree ofcourse Smile

I would love to see the Christian logic book.
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VanIslander



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
My master's degree thesis is in Logic, particularly a subfield called Informal Logic. I've taken several courses in Logic, and have even co-taught Intro. courses for university undergrads, and let me say that while a little formal logic is a good thing, too much (reliance on it in everyday discourse) can be as damaging as having none at all.

Hater Depot wrote:
On the other hand, I recently saw a guy on Wikipedia argue that A = B and B = C does not imply that A = C.

That's called the logical rule of transitivity and - while it holds in MOST systems of formal logic (except in some deviant logics used in science and math), that logical rule does NOT hold in the informal logic of everyday arguments.

A can equal B (in one respect or one context), B equal C (in another respect or another context), and yet A not equal C. Arguments in everyday language don't fit nicely into syllogisms or other logical forms.

If one wishes to appeal to logic in argumentation one should cite evidence of a specific logical fallacy (like false analogy) - or better: argue directly against a claim or argument itself - rather than another's general deficiency (because that'd commit an ad hominen, which'd be a fallacy if used to discredit the argument, but valid sometimes if used against the arguer only).

Last edited by VanIslander on Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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joe_doufu



Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: Logic, get some. Reply with quote
laogaiguk wrote:
1)All apples are fruits.
2)All fruits are not apples.

Are you on crack? Some fruits are in fact apples.
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VanIslander



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: Logic, get some. Reply with quote
joe_doufu wrote:
laogaiguk wrote:
...All fruits are not apples.

Are you on crack? Some fruits are in fact apples.

This is why you're nicknamed joe_doofus Rolling Eyes

(half joking)

Of course, the claim is patently false. You've missed the point.
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joe_doufu