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Doutdes
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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 Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| dulouz wrote: |
| I looked at the 2004 FBI hate crime statistics. The results are ambiguous. It seems Whites are underepresented and Blacks are over represented when we talk about the race of the offender. |
Of course you're looking at the offender list, because if you'd look at the victim list you'd see that blacks are far over represented. There are three times as many hate crimes against blacks than whites, even though blacks are the minority.
There are some other problems with your analysis too. For one, you ignore the large unknown race category. Secondly, you ignore that many of the hate crimes committed by blacks also contain an economic incentive (ie. robbery), whereas white crimes often do not (ie. arson). Even if blacks are over represented as offenders, doesn't mean they are attacking white people. There are other races than blacks and whites, and hate crimes are often committed against gays and various religious groups too. |
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shortskirt_longjacket
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Location: fitz and ernie are my raison d'etre
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| dulouz wrote: |
| White Americans are tired of Black and Hispanic violent crime against them. |
As a "White American" (nice caps) I have to say that of all the people I wish would not speak on my behalf you, sir, are number one.
But W. is a close second. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Pearl Harbor aside, your run-of-the-mill American has a greater chance of being killed by ______________________ [anything not Axis power related]
Mindmetoo, 1942 |
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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:38 am Post subject: |
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As a "White American" (nice caps) I have to say that of all the people I wish would not speak on my behalf you, sir, are number one.
But W. is a close second. |
As a fair minded person, you should not be happy with imbalanced statistics -period- but you are. Tell us why. |
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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| econdly, you ignore that many of the hate crimes committed by blacks also contain an economic incentive |
So your point is that hates crimes are OK as long as you steal a wallet. Do you feel thats a defensible point? |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Right Wing Christian Terrorists |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
However Christians are the ones who are greatly persecuted throughout the world and it is becoming worse rather than better.
Today more than 200 million Christians around the world suffer imprisonment, abuse and even death because of their faith. Yet most Americans never hear their stories. In Their Blood Cries Out, Paul Marshall reveals the reality of this present-day persecution, revealing what we can do to help these brothers and sisters in Christ.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0849940206/greaterthingsboo/103-3075990-6806208
Christians today are the most persecuted religious group in the world, and persecution has intensified during the past few years. Torture, enslavement, rape, imprisonment, killings ... even crucifixions are among the atrocities perpetrated upon believers around the world, much of them stemming from two ideologies that prevail internationally: communism and militant, politicized Islam.
Throughout the world, thousands of Christians are being killed because of their faith. Yet, CNN and other major networks remain silent. It's one of the greatest crimes of the 21st century. |
Hindus say the same in India (seriously). Muslims say it all the time as well. "We're being persecuted! It's a crime against humanity! We're special!"
Eh yeah.. What it comes down to is people of every faith get persecuted. Spare me the "pity me" crap. |
You say this so flippantly. Like I haven't researched this or that my friends have experienced this type of persecution. That pastors tell of stories of being butchered by radical muslims.
Pity me crap...it's more like social justice. You sound more like someone who was in Germany and watched all the jews being killed. "Oh who cares if a few more are killed, there is plenty more of them to go." You might be angry at what I just said, but your attitude is the same as it was in Germany. If you don't have facts to prove what you have said then you fall in the same camp as those who watched all the Jews burn without saying anything.
I personally don't know you, but so I am going to assume it is out of naivity/complacency that you said what you said, but I look forward to the day when words like those burn in hell forever.
Greater attrocities are happening in the world now than any other time period before. Great evil is happening and this world is turning a blind eye to some of the greatest evils ever committed.
OTH made a great observation in which I had never thought of before,
| Quote: |
Possibly one of the reasons why "CNN" remains silent about this is because, in most places, Christians aren't being persecuted qua Christians. Rather, Christians, along with many other groups, are being persecuted for failing to fall in line with some state ideology.
If you go around handing out Christian tracts on the streets of Riyadh in Saudi Arabia, you'll almost certainly get hauled off to prison. But you'll also get tossed in the clink for distributing gay rights pamphlets, copies of Playboy magazine, and essays defending Shiite Islam. So, looking at the Saudi human rights record in general, there doesn't seem to be any reason to single out Christians for any special sympathy.
But of course the persecution of Christians is just as despicable as the persecution of any other group in these countries. |
Which would be totally hypocritical on CNN's part, but it makes total sense. They hate evangelism so they think that Christians deserve the penalties they face because they shouldn't be evangelizing in the first place. So then they remain silent on one of the worst attrocities ever. I can't believe I never thought of this before. |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Christians today are the most persecuted religious group in the world ... |
Christianity is the largest religion in the world, so even a very small percentage of persecutions will amount to a large number of people.
You can't make valid comparisons between the different religions because the number of followers is not equal.
For example:
If (God forbid) four million Christians were to die, that would almost be a drop in the bucket, for there would literally be well over a billion followers left.
If four million Jainists were to die, that would wipe out every single Jainist off the face of the earth. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Torture, enslavement, rape, imprisonment, killings ... even crucifixions are among the atrocities perpetrated upon believers around the world, much of them stemming from two ideologies that prevail internationally: communism and militant, politicized Islam. |
Care to back that up? Any links(reliable ones, no christian newsletters someone printed off in their basement)
Proof that the person being 'persecuted' was persecuted because they were christian?
Or like your claims of faith healing and other nonsense....simply the railings of a brainwashed mind? |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:28 am Post subject: |
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You can't make valid comparisons between the different religions because the number of followers is not equal.
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You can about the major religions of the world. Lets say for an example use the number of christians vs muslims for an example. They are the two most well known by the readers on the forum. (sorry to those who follow the buddhist belief).
Can you quote the number of christian prisoners held in Muslim nations for following Christianity vs the number of muslims held in Christian (so called) nations for being muslim?
How about the number of christian converts killed in the last 20 yrs for
changing religions vs the number of muslim converts killed for changing religions?
Ok, how about the number of christians falsely accused and imprisoned for following their religion vs the number of muslims falsely accused and imprisoned?
I am interested in where you draw a line in the sand or how you determine guilt in regards to the above situations? I appologize about the last line, I can't explain myself fully or as clear as I intend. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Right Wing Christian Terrorists |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
[
Pity me crap...it's more like social justice. You sound more like someone who was in Germany and watched all the jews being killed. "Oh who cares if a few more are killed, there is plenty more of them to go." You might be angry at what I just said, but your attitude is the same as it was in Germany. If you don't have facts to prove what you have said then you fall in the same camp as those who watched all the Jews burn without saying anything.
I personally don't know you, but so I am going to assume it is out of naivity/complacency that you said what you said, but I look forward to the day when words like those burn in hell forever.
Greater attrocities are happening in the world now than any other time period before. Great evil is happening and this world is turning a blind eye to some of the greatest evils ever co
mmitted.
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I've been accused of being a NAZI sympathizer! SWEET! I'd never thought I'd see the day.
Greater attrocities are happening in the world now than any other time period before??
Genghis Kahn was a real humanitarian. Tolitarianism in the 30s and 40s was a great period time too. A beacon of enlightenment, let me tell you.
LOWER THE HYPERBOLE. thanks
Somehow I doubt you did anything when the genocide in Rwanda was taking place. And Darfur? the worst attrocity in the world right now. I bet you ain't doing squat about that either cause it isn't xtians that are getting killed there. So excuse me for dismissing you so "flippantly." |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Can you quote the number of christian prisoners held in Muslim nations for following Christianity vs the number of muslims held in Christian (so called) nations for being muslim? |
If a terrorist is in jail for participating, planning or supporting terrorist actions their religion is immaterial.
Just because there are a known groups of terrorists who happen to be muslim doesnt mean the reason they are in jail is religion based. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
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You can't make valid comparisons between the different religions because the number of followers is not equal.
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You can about the major religions of the world. Lets say for an example use the number of christians vs muslims for an example. They are the two most well known by the readers on the forum. (sorry to those who follow the buddhist belief).
Can you quote the number of christian prisoners held in Muslim nations for following Christianity vs the number of muslims held in Christian (so called) nations for being muslim?
How about the number of christian converts killed in the last 20 yrs for
changing religions vs the number of muslim converts killed for changing religions?
Ok, how about the number of christians falsely accused and imprisoned for following their religion vs the number of muslims falsely accused and imprisoned?
I am interested in where you draw a line in the sand or how you determine guilt in regards to the above situations? I appologize about the last line, I can't explain myself fully or as clear as I intend. |
I do think Christians are more heavily persecuted in muslim-majority countries than vice versa. Anyone who argues differently is not facing reality and trying to be too PC about it. I won't dispute that.
What I dispute is Fiveeagles notion that xtians as a whole are persecuted and the rest of the world is out to get them. Give me a break. Outside Saudi and a few other nutty Islamic states, plus a couple commie countries to a lesser degree, christians are in ok shape. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:12 am Post subject: |
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If a terrorist is in jail for participating, planning or supporting terrorist actions their religion is immaterial.
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Explain where I said that they were arrested for terrorist activities. Look it must be Guy Fawkes. 
| Quote: |
do think Christians are more heavily persecuted in muslim-majority countries than vice versa. Anyone who argues differently is not facing reality and trying to be too PC about it. I won't dispute that.
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That is exactly the point I wanted to bring out.  I won't stand in for the Flying Bird, he can stand for what he does. But I am tired of people saying that certain actions are exactly the same when they are obviously not.
I must say I supported Anwar when he was imprisoned and can you give me a similar example occuring in the USA or elsewhere and why does similar things seem to happen predominantly in certain countries and we know which I am pointing at and they aren't all extremist. (Yes, I know he's not Christian) but the point remains the same. How you treat your citizens is usually indicative of how you will treat your neighbors and that scares me more today than any other time in my years on this planet. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Right Wing Christian Terrorists |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
You say this so flippantly. Like I haven't researched this or that my friends have experienced this type of persecution. That pastors tell of stories of being butchered by radical muslims. |
Really? That is a miracle if they are talking after being butchered. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:26 am Post subject: |
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Wonderful thread, here. People 'meh'ing persecutions against Christians, and the offended responding by damning them to Hell. BTW, what was the message Dante put on the gates of Hell? Ah, yes, "This, too, was created out of God's love." ROFL. More like a creation of Augustine's sublimated envy and hatred. Let's not forget the OP is totally off, here are the figures for some bombings since 1998, which Teufelswacht dates as the last abortion fatality. I left out Sept 11, and I got these examples from wikipedia.
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9 November 2005 - 2005 Amman bombings, over 60 killed and 115 injured, in a series of coordinated suicide attacks on Hotels in Amman, Jordan. Four attackers including a husband and wife team were involved.
23 July 2005 - Bomb attacks at Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort city, kill at least 64 people.
7 July 2005 - Multiple bombings in London Underground, 53 dead killed by four suicide bombers.
4 February 2005 - Muslim militants attacked the Christian community in Demsa, Nigeria, killing 36 people, destroying property and displacing an additional 3000 people.
11 March 2004 - Multiple bombings on trains near Madrid, Spain. 191 killed, 1460 injured. (alleged link to Al-Qaeda)
16 May 2004- Casablanca Attacks - 4 simultaneous attacks in Casablanca killing 33 civilians (mostly Moroccans) carried by Slafaia Jihadia.
12 October 2002 - Bombing in Bali nightclub. 202 killed, 300 injured.
24 September 2002 - Machine Gun attack on Hindu temple in Ahmedabad, India. 31 dead, 86 injured
7 May 2002 - Bombing in al-Arbaa, Algeria. 49 dead, 117 injured
9 March 2002 - Café suicide bombing in Jerusalem; 11 killed, 54 injured
3 March 2002 - Suicide bomb attack on a Passover Seder in a Hotel in Netanya, Israel. 29 dead, 133 injured
26 February 2002 - Train of Hindu pilgrims allegedly fire bombed in Gujarat, India; 59 dead (Later investigation revealed that the fire was accidental - [17])
7 August 1998 - Embassy bombing in Tanzania and Kenya. 225 dead. 4000+ injured |
I realize these are not all Americans, but I have it on good authority that some Americans are living outside the United States these days. I have also heard that there are some Islamic organizations that specifically target Americans when they can get their hands on them.
BB, Fiveeagles was indeed out of line when he chastised you (hyperbole is right), but what is this?
| BB wrote: |
| Somehow I doubt you did anything when the genocide in Rwanda was taking place. And Darfur? the worst attrocity in the world right now. I bet you ain't doing squat about that either cause it isn't xtians that are getting killed there. |
It kind of reminds me of this article on Bill O'Reilly and Nicholas Kristoff.
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| I jest, of course, but there's something around the bend about Kristof's Darfur-instead-of-Christmas harping. Every journalist who chooses to report on Subject A receives critical mail and phone calls from folks who insist that the journalist should be reporting on Subject B if he thinks A is a problem. Kristof must think it's clever to stoop to a gambit that's beneath any self-respecting blogger. |
As a Christian, Fiveeagles has every right to be primarily concerned about Christian persecution. He's not condoning Darfur as far as I can tell. |
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