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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| you have no business in a combat zone. ADMIN, yes. Combat, no. |
She was in a supply convoy that took a wrong turn and got ambushed. They weren't supposed to be anywhere near combat.
But that sidetracks from the reason she was brought up in the first place: DoD propaganda machine turned her into Rambette. |
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Mills
Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
| Quote: |
| you have no business in a combat zone. ADMIN, yes. Combat, no. |
She was in a supply convoy that took a wrong turn and got ambushed. They weren't supposed to be anywhere near combat.
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The whole of Iraq wan't a combat zone on March 23, 2003? Oh yeah... we were liberators then, wait no... I seem to remember something they told my unit before we left... |
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Mills
Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
| Quote: |
| you have no business in a combat zone. ADMIN, yes. Combat, no. |
She was in a supply convoy that took a wrong turn and got ambushed. They weren't supposed to be anywhere near combat.
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PLUS,
I wasn't speaking of Lynch specifically (although the thought of her curled up inside a wrecked Hum-V, in some ways did prompt my comment). I was thinking more in general terms and expressing beliefs I aquired during my experience in the military. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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A bit of a strawman there Mills since Jessica Lynch was clearly the topic,
and she was a supply clerk in a maintenance company, so clearly admin rather than combat.
The point wasn't women in combat roles (a thread for another day) but the US military's recent history of (at the very least) getting the story wrong. |
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Mills
Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
A bit of a strawman there Mills since Jessica Lynch was clearly the topic,
and she was a supply clerk in a maintenance company, so clearly admin rather than combat.
The point wasn't women in combat roles (a thread for another day) but the US military's recent history of (at the very least) getting the story wrong. |
Yeah, it seemed that topic was cooling (this thread anyway) and I wanted to get other peoples' opinion of women in the military. Lynch seemed like a good opportunity... |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Mills wrote: |
I'll catch hell for this, but who cares? Before I enlisted in the Marine Corps, if you asked "Should women be allowed in combat?", I would have said "Yes, absolutely!". After serving in the Marine Corps, I say "If they can carry their own sh*t and move as quickly as everyone else while doing so." There should not be lower standards for women, there should be equal standards for all. If you are a woman who can carry a 70 lb pack, a weapon, and its ammunition while running your ass off, you can go to combat. If you are a 100 lb stick-figure who can't remember how to clean (let alone discharge) your weapon, you have no business in a combat zone. ADMIN, yes. Combat, no.
*Flame on! |
I couldn't agree more. I once had a job as a Teamster, in Alaska, where I was teamed on a delivery truck with a 120 lb stick figure of a man, who was arbitrarily made the lead because he was a man. His *beep* didn't help him any when he got to the top of the ramp with a handtruck full of cases of beer in bottles, and didn't have the weight or strength to control it. There it was- him and 10 cases of beer in a splat in the snow and ice at the foot of the ramp. I took over the task with no problem.
It cuts both ways- some women are bigger and stronger than some men. Most aren't. But the strength and stamina required for battle and fighter jet flying can be acquired by either, or not. The requirements should be the same either way. I would rather have a muscular, fit woman on my side, than an fat male couch potato.
This goes for the military, the police and the fire department. There are fat, unfit guys, and remarkably strong fit women. Can they do the job? That is what should matter, not genitalia. |
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Mills
Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Mills, what was your MOS? And were you East Coast or West? |
West, 0861. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mills
Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
West, 0331.
I suspect there're ten years between us, though. |
I went in in Dec. 1998, should have got out Dec. 2002... STOP LOSS BLOWS.
| Gopher wrote: |
Don't know if Toad still posts here. That'll be all of us on this board, as far as I'm aware. |
Yeah, he just posted on the "What do you miss about the military" thread. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Mills wrote: |
| Bulsajo wrote: |
A bit of a strawman there Mills since Jessica Lynch was clearly the topic,
and she was a supply clerk in a maintenance company, so clearly admin rather than combat.
The point wasn't women in combat roles (a thread for another day) but the US military's recent history of (at the very least) getting the story wrong. |
Yeah, it seemed that topic was cooling (this thread anyway) and I wanted to get other peoples' opinion of women in the military. Lynch seemed like a good opportunity ... |
Bringing up Jessica Lynch while discussing the Dog-Wagging of "ol Shoe" Pat Tillman, it's not hard to see disturbing parallels.
The truth about Jessica
Her Iraqi guards had long fled, she was being well cared for - and doctors had already tried to free her. John Kampfner discovers the real story behind a modern American war myth.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,956255,00.html
Everyone's heard of Jerry Bruckheimer. Apparently he was COACHING the camera crews in how to best FRAME Lynch's "rescue".
FYI ...
Two days before the snatch squad arrived, Harith had arranged to deliver Jessica to the Americans in an ambulance.
But as the ambulance, with Private Lynch inside, approached a checkpoint American troops opened fire, forcing it to flee back to the hospital. The Americans had almost killed their prize catch.
When footage of the rescue was released, General Vincent Brooks, US spokesman in Doha, said : "Some brave souls put their lives on the line to make this happen, loyal to a creed that they know that they��ll never leave a fallen comrade."
The American strategy was to ensure the right television footage by using embedded reporters and images from their own cameras, editing the film themselves.
The Pentagon had been influenced by Hollywood producers of reality TV and action movies, notably the man behind Black Hawk Down, Jerry Bruckheimer.
Bruckheimer advised the Pentagon on the primetime television series "Profiles from the Front Line", that followed US forces in Afghanistan in 2001. That approached was taken on and developed on the field of battle in Iraq.
Of further interest ...
Just a Coincidence?
4 of Jessica Lynch's Rescuers Have Died Mysteriously
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=lynch+rescuers+dead |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
| Mills wrote: |
I'll catch hell for this, but who cares? Before I enlisted in the Marine Corps, if you asked "Should women be allowed in combat?", I would have said "Yes, absolutely!". After serving in the Marine Corps, I say "If they can carry their own sh*t and move as quickly as everyone else while doing so." There should not be lower standards for women, there should be equal standards for all. If you are a woman who can carry a 70 lb pack, a weapon, and its ammunition while running your ass off, you can go to combat. If you are a 100 lb stick-figure who can't remember how to clean (let alone discharge) your weapon, you have no business in a combat zone. ADMIN, yes. Combat, no.
*Flame on! |
I couldn't agree more. I once had a job as a Teamster, in Alaska, where I was teamed on a delivery truck with a 120 lb stick figure of a man, who was arbitrarily made the lead because he was a man. His *beep* didn't help him any when he got to the top of the ramp with a handtruck full of cases of beer in bottles, and didn't have the weight or strength to control it. There it was- him and 10 cases of beer in a splat in the snow and ice at the foot of the ramp. I took over the task with no problem.
It cuts both ways- some women are bigger and stronger than some men. Most aren't. But the strength and stamina required for battle and fighter jet flying can be acquired by either, or not. The requirements should be the same either way. I would rather have a muscular, fit woman on my side, than an fat male couch potato.
This goes for the military, the police and the fire department. There are fat, unfit guys, and remarkably strong fit women. Can they do the job? That is what should matter, not genitalia. |
But the vast majority of women can't, and when they lower the bar for them it breeds nothing but derision. |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| desultude wrote: |
| Mills wrote: |
I'll catch hell for this, but who cares? Before I enlisted in the Marine Corps, if you asked "Should women be allowed in combat?", I would have said "Yes, absolutely!". After serving in the Marine Corps, I say "If they can carry their own sh*t and move as quickly as everyone else while doing so." There should not be lower standards for women, there should be equal standards for all. If you are a woman who can carry a 70 lb pack, a weapon, and its ammunition while running your ass off, you can go to combat. If you are a 100 lb stick-figure who can't remember how to clean (let alone discharge) your weapon, you have no business in a combat zone. ADMIN, yes. Combat, no.
*Flame on! |
I couldn't agree more. I once had a job as a Teamster, in Alaska, where I was teamed on a delivery truck with a 120 lb stick figure of a man, who was arbitrarily made the lead because he was a man. His *beep* didn't help him any when he got to the top of the ramp with a handtruck full of cases of beer in bottles, and didn't have the weight or strength to control it. There it was- him and 10 cases of beer in a splat in the snow and ice at the foot of the ramp. I took over the task with no problem.
It cuts both ways- some women are bigger and stronger than some men. Most aren't. But the strength and stamina required for battle and fighter jet flying can be acquired by either, or not. The requirements should be the same either way. I would rather have a muscular, fit woman on my side, than an fat male couch potato.
This goes for the military, the police and the fire department. There are fat, unfit guys, and remarkably strong fit women. Can they do the job? That is what should matter, not genitalia. |
But the vast majority of women can't, and when they lower the bar for them it breeds nothing but derision. |
Yes, I do believe I said that. Ability, not genitalia, should always be the determiner. |
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