Korean Job Discussion Forums

[bucheon bum]

so corporal, i guess you really take the expression, "damn them all to hell" literally huh?

I'm just curious, what aspects of Korean culture have you embraced? Obviously you must like somethings about Korea since you married a Korean man, so I'd like to know.

[Homer]

I am not calling your beliefs ridiculous corporal. I am calling the comparison you make ridiculous. Two very different points.
Also you used an extreme example with:
"Would you tell a Hindu, "In our society it's perfectly acceptable to eat cow, so when you visit our country, you'd better try fit in by eating it too?"
Of course not, that is totally different and not eating cow is a regligious belief in India. Bowing in Korea is NOT religious act it is akin to a respectfull handshake.
You are framing the act of bowing in korea in a religious way to justify your refusal to bow.
The bowing in the christian sense, like others have said on here, means worship or submitting.
This is not the same thing at all then bowing to your korean in-laws. Its not the same ballpark, heck its not even the same sport.
Like I said, if your in-laws treated you badldy and you refuse to bow to them because of it thats your choice. But using christianity as an excuse is not proper.


Also, I am curious, do you like enything about korean culture? I mean like bum said you did marry a Korean man. Much like I married a Korean woman. To me this means accepting certain cultural behaviors (not all) and putting value on certain cultural values that are Korean.
You also have a child togheter and I assume this child will be raised to recognize the beauty of both of your cultures.
Just curious as to how that will be acheived if, like it seems on here, you do not like anything korean except the food.

[bucheon bum]

nice pulp fiction reference there homer. I was going to say what you just said but it came across as very inarticulate (due to sleepiness for one), so just gave up. Thanks for doing it for me .

[TheUrbanMyth]

[bucheon bum]

uh there is a problem there with your analogy Urban Myth. In the example you gave, both sides acknowledge that the meat was provided to please some idol. In other words, it is a religous action. One side simply decides to ignore that aspect and eats the meat, while the other decides he can't do it because it goes against his religion.

Once again, bowing is NOT a religous thing in Korea. It has nothing to do with god or idols. Just ask the millions of Korean christians.

[Starperson]

Yeah I did misread them, Dutchman, I meant, "Well done, Corporal". I was impressed that she doesn't do all her husband's cooking. My boyfriend once confidently told me that I'd have to get up at 5.30am and cook breakfast for him and anyone else who was around (if we got married). I think he's getting used to the idea that I won't (at least not every day).


Homer wrote:
You are framing the act of bowing in korea in a religious way to justify your refusal to bow.

My guess is that you probably didn't do any bowing, even before you met your in-laws, Corporal?

The Bible/meat thing is not about the nitty-gritty of whether the meat was sacrificial meat. It's just the point that one person thinks a particular action's okay, someone else doesn't, but the two parties need to respect each other's choices ie. eat meat or don't eat it; bow or don't bow, but don't terrorise the party who doesn't choose the behaviour that you choose.

Personally I think the Biblical idea of bowing is, like others have said, better represented by the word, 'worship'. I see everyday bowing in Korea as just a social greeting. The Confucian origins of the whole social hierarchy thing here, are related to respect, obedience etc., rather than worship. I look at bowing in the context of the whole social system.

How about bowing to ancestor graves? See I'd probably have reservations about doing that. I guess because you have to get down on your knees and put your forehead to the ground (at least I think you do). But is it really any different from everyday bowing?

[Homer]

Starperson,

Bowing to your ancerstors and paying hommage is different from the daily bowing.
Bowing to someone as you meet them or as you leave is a form of politeness or a show of respect and civility.
Bowing to your ancestors at the family funeral plot is quite different. I can quite understand why someone would refuse or feel uncomfortable doing this as a foreigner in Korea.
But the everyday bowing is a social norm of behavior.
Perhaps she didn't do any bowing even before meeting her in-laws. thats her choice but then she could not turn around and say koreans are culturally insensitive somewhere else when she refuses to to the simplest form of cultural adaptation while here.

Again I said if she chooses not to bow its a choice and her right to make it. But, its not really proper to use christianity values to legitimize it. She seems not to bow to her in-laws because of a bad personnal relationship. Thats seems to be the reason for the refusal to bow.
Saying "I bow to no one but god" is just not a proper way to frame things, in my humble opinion.
This again begs the question that since she married a korean man and has a child with him how will she make her child feel good about korean culture when she does not seem to like anything about it? (this is what we get from her posts).
This child will be expected to bow to his grandparents here in Korea and to learn about Korean values and culture as well as western ones and to value both.

[Starperson]

But if she wasn't bowing before she met her in-laws, then she's not using her Christian principles to justify not bowing.
Maybe if she stopped bowing after things went sour with her mother-in-law, then someone could suggest what you're suggesting.
Though I don't agree with her about bowing, I think she's perfectly reasonable not to bow, as that's the way she interprets the Bible. I think it's based on her beliefs, and she's not just legitimising her non-bowing with her Christianity.

So what's the difference between bowing to ancestor's graves and everyday bowing? (Just for debate's sake). Isn't it all a social norm? Although I have heard some Christian Koreans don't do it.

[Homer]

starperson,

The every day bowing is a basic form of politeness and respect in daily social activities.
The bowing to your ancestors is a ceremony hence not a regular act or a basic social norm.
Thats how I see the difference.
My opinion on this is that since we are here in Korea as guests it is just basic courtesy to adapt in a few little ways. This does not equate to conversion or to submitting, I just see it as the most basic of things to do.

Also, if a person marries someone from here and has children with them it is normal that just as the child will learn to value western values from his or her parents it should learnt to value Korean values too. This is the normal thing to do. Korea represents half of that childs heritage. The bowing is part of that heritage and culture.

In the end a person can choose to bow or not, to learn korean or not and to accept or not accept parts of korean culture and norms. Thats a choice. I just could not live here, get married here, make friends here and then ignore or reject basic cultural norms of politeness. I think a person can benefit a lot from a mixing of the two culture (western and asian) as there are great values in both that compensate for great flaws in both.
On the bowing thing, for me, its just a form of respect that I value while here.

[TheUrbanMyth]

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Homer]

Urbanmyth...

You said:

"I do not bow. I feel that a slight inclination of the head is all that is needed"


Thats exactly what bowing is in everyday social interaction and that is what I meant by "bowing".

The other type of bowing involves ceremony and is only performed at certain times or events (new years, ancestor ceremony, wedding)

The "slight inclination" is all that is required in Korea to be polite. A person refusing to do even this is quite rude. A person refusing to do the other and more involved type of bowing is making a different kind of decision.

[bucheon bum]

[OiGirl]

Sometimes we have to modify our greetings and everyday social interactions according to the interlocutors.

Back home, if I were teaching in the middle school, I might greet a student by shaking hands. Some Hispanic girls might greet me with a kiss or a hug. However, I would never do any of the above with my Muslim male students. It would offend them because of their culture and religion.

If I were Corporal's mother-in-law I would not expect her to bow to me because of her culture,values, and/or religion.

[humanuspneumos]

Those of you who wonder whether or not to bow (pay respect to those to whom it is due to on some level) could always ask how the relatives interpret your bow. If they don't see it tied into "buttering-up" them for future spiritual events when they are dead- then it's just a politeness or paying respect to whom respect is due (thanks for washing my husband's/wife's clothes, cooking, and bringing in the bacon for all those hard, hard years.)

Me thinx that with the "blood-line" smashed- so- to speak- that it's all taken to a new level in the game of respect. It's taken out of the realm of pure-blood/ancestrial spiritism. Right? The Korean Christians are perhaps not doing it for a different reason- they are still in the animistic/ancestrial context as a Korean and want to be done with it all. You- being a foreigner- aren't and I doubt you are interpreted as having any affairs in their animistic/ancestrial spritism- waygook-saram.

When I was in Thailand it was actually offensive on some level for Farang (white foreigners) to act like Thais. They would say- "Why do they try to act like us- grrrrrrrr? You're NOT one of us." It was kind of a shock because I thought it was expected. Then again- when I didn't like some food- hail stones came-a-falling-down on my head from the older generation. eeeesh I wonder if Koreans ever feel that we should just leave ourselves out of their deeper/more spiritual/cultural nuances. I wonder if that question ever gets asked. I imagine them thinking that it's not hurting anyone if we don't. However- do they really want the waygook to be part of it all?