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cameron.mayo
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Location: Western Hemisphere
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 Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: |
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" I CANT QUIT YOU"
YUP the kid died of a hate crime and his parents knew THEY WERE ON 2GEVVA.
The old man was pissed, the mother, tho not over the moon about the arrangement was willing to "let it go" because her boy found some love/happiness. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:11 am Post subject: |
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The line sounds pretty clear on the link below, but before you click, note:
WARNING!!
CONTAINS PLOT SPOILERS!!!
. <-- click that little speck. |
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cameron.mayo
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Location: Western Hemisphere
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Nice one...
I liked clicking the 'spec' too. |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| that was funny |
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jacl
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:29 am Post subject: |
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I think it's pretty obvious that he was gay bashed. The way his wife described how he died was too "Final Destiny"ish.
Who cares what he says in the end. Has no deep hidden meaning. He's just talking to himself. Maybe "Jack I swear.." is a promise that he will avenge his death. Wait for "Brokeback Mountain 2: Straight Basher on the Warpath" a la Charles Bronson. In about ten years we'll have this guy, Freddy Krueger, and Jason going at it and... |
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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Thunndarr wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Hater Depot wrote: |
| In the story it is ambiguous how Jack died. One of (maybe the) final lines was "Was it the tire, or the tire iron?" |
Interesting. For me, one of the few things that was actually clearly stated in the movie was how and why he died. I mean, they showed you the scene, so how can there be any doubt? |
Uh, because that scene is showing what Enis is thinking at that moment (which may be the truth.) |
i disagree with this as well. it think when it flashes to the dead body, that was intended to be reality, not just the guy's thoughts. i also disagree that you could replace one of the characters with a girl and the movie would be a banal romantic flick. the movie wouldn't make any damn sense with a girl in it.
as far as what ANNIE PROULX has to say, she can go to hell with all that. what is she implying? that racism isn't an important issue anymore because now we've got homophobia? and she rhymes crash with trash. yeah, nice. real literary touch you've got there. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| billybrobby wrote: |
| Thunndarr wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Hater Depot wrote: |
| In the story it is ambiguous how Jack died. One of (maybe the) final lines was "Was it the tire, or the tire iron?" |
Interesting. For me, one of the few things that was actually clearly stated in the movie was how and why he died. I mean, they showed you the scene, so how can there be any doubt? |
Uh, because that scene is showing what Enis is thinking at that moment (which may be the truth.) |
i disagree with this as well. it think when it flashes to the dead body, that was intended to be reality, not just the guy's thoughts. i also disagree that you could replace one of the characters with a girl and the movie would be a banal romantic flick. the movie wouldn't make any damn sense with a girl in it.
as far as what ANNIE PROULX has to say, she can go to hell with all that. what is she implying? that racism isn't an important issue anymore because now we've got homophobia? and she rhymes crash with trash. yeah, nice. real literary touch you've got there. |
Its funny. If Crash rhymes with Trash then Brokeback rhymes with Bareback, Ennis rhymes with *beep* and Jack rhymes (ok not really rhymes) with jack Off.
The only reason Brokeback stands out from among You've got Mail, Sleepless in Seattle and the Wedding planner is the cinematography (nothing to do with Annie Proulx's writing) and the gay theme. Other than that, cast J Lo in (P)Ennis' role and you have another summer romantic piece of fluff. |
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coffeeman
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| jacl wrote: |
| I think it's pretty obvious that he was gay bashed. The way his wife described how he died was too "Final Destiny"ish.... |
A lot of things in the movie suggest that this is the case. For example, Ennis's story about his father showing him the murdered guy when he was a kid. He also says that they' d both get killed in Texas if they shacked up together.
On the other hand, another cause of death is possible. Jack chews out his father in law at the dining table (and probably on other occasions that we don't know about). He's having lousy relations with his wife. He says that they could work their marriage over the phone. By the end, Jack's wife and her family hate the guy. The father may have had him killed for that reason alone. Obviously, the family is behind his murder otherwise they would have been honest and said "He was murdered."
As a romance movie, give BBM a break. You know almost all movies in this genre have the same story. It's a pretty boring genre in that respect. That said, this movie is well done. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| coffeeman wrote: |
As a romance movie, give BBM a break. You know almost all movies in this genre have the same story. It's a pretty boring genre in that respect. That said, this movie is well done. |
It is a boring genre. Thats why the only reaon it was even nominated for best picture is because it has a gay theme. |
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| billybrobby wrote: |
| Thunndarr wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Hater Depot wrote: |
| In the story it is ambiguous how Jack died. One of (maybe the) final lines was "Was it the tire, or the tire iron?" |
Interesting. For me, one of the few things that was actually clearly stated in the movie was how and why he died. I mean, they showed you the scene, so how can there be any doubt? |
Uh, because that scene is showing what Enis is thinking at that moment (which may be the truth.) |
i disagree with this as well. it think when it flashes to the dead body, that was intended to be reality, not just the guy's thoughts. |
That doesn't really make sense, for several reasons. First of all, who, exactly is having this flashback? The dead guy? The wife who wasn't there? Second, if it wasn't a flashback, then the scene should have appeared earlier in the movie, when Jack actually died, not when Enis found out about it. Third, the scene is disjointed, and we are left only with an impression of what happened. Fourth, and probably the best reason that it wasn't literally what happened, is that putting that scene in there as the literal truth would amount to directorial hackery. Good directors don't need to spell things out so obviously. It would be like if Ridley Scott had a big scrolling message at the end of Blade Runner "PSST! DECKARD'S A REPLICANT!" |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:48 am Post subject: |
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Coffeeman wrote:
| Quote: |
| On the other hand, another cause of death is possible. Jack chews out his father in law at the dining table (and probably on other occasions that we don't know about). He's having lousy relations with his wife. He says that they could work their marriage over the phone. By the end, Jack's wife and her family hate the guy. The father may have had him killed for that reason alone. Obviously, the family is behind his murder otherwise they would have been honest and said "He was murdered. |
Also, didn`t Jack admit to Ennis that he was having an affair with a ranch foreman`s wife - If I remember correctly hew as also having an affair with that woman he and his wife were with at that country dance and the womans husband asked Jack to go camping with him. |
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coffeeman
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: |
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[quote="TECO"]Coffeeman wrote:
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| Also, didn`t Jack admit to Ennis that he was having an affair with a ranch foreman`s wife - If I remember correctly hew as also having an affair with that woman he and his wife were with at that country dance and the womans husband asked Jack to go camping with him. |
Yeah, that's right. Forgot about that. Based on this too, I am not inclined to believe his murder was due gay bashing. He seemed to be very careful in keeping his secret. After all, he went to Mexico to get some loving. Anyway, it's good that the director left this to open interpretation. Leaves us something to speculate on - like in real life. |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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I agree.
Jack may have done a good job of keeping his and Ennis`s "secret", but it sems that there were a few people that may have wanted to kill him.
Also, if you watch the scene again when Ennis is on the phone with Laureen, doesn`t it sound to you like she is reciting a pre-memorized account of how Jack died? Like she had rehearsed what she was "supposed" to say.
Again, I agree. They leave a few things in the movie open for interpretation. |
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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Thunndarr wrote: |
| billybrobby wrote: |
| Thunndarr wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Hater Depot wrote: |
| In the story it is ambiguous how Jack died. One of (maybe the) final lines was "Was it the tire, or the tire iron?" |
Interesting. For me, one of the few things that was actually clearly stated in the movie was how and why he died. I mean, they showed you the scene, so how can there be any doubt? |
Uh, because that scene is showing what Enis is thinking at that moment (which may be the truth.) |
i disagree with this as well. it think when it flashes to the dead body, that was intended to be reality, not just the guy's thoughts. |
That doesn't really make sense, for several reasons. First of all, who, exactly is having this flashback? The dead guy? The wife who wasn't there? Second, if it wasn't a flashback, then the scene should have appeared earlier in the movie, when Jack actually died, not when Enis found out about it. Third, the scene is disjointed, and we are left only with an impression of what happened. Fourth, and probably the best reason that it wasn't literally what happened, is that putting that scene in there as the literal truth would amount to directorial hackery. Good directors don't need to spell things out so obviously. It would be like if Ridley Scott had a big scrolling message at the end of Blade Runner "PSST! DECKARD'S A REPLICANT!" |
alright...
first. yeah, it's not a flashback. i just used to word 'flash' because they showed the body briefly.
second. You know in CSI when the guy says "and then the bullet went into the brain" and they show you the computer effects of the bullet going into the brain. Or they say "and then we stole the wallet" and it shows the guy stealing the wallet. It's the same thing. notice in CSI they only show stuff that really happened, it's not somebody imagination.
third. not everything's gotta be linear. the show the image of the body as the subject gets brought up.
fourth. we're having this debate and you're saying it would spell things out too clearly? in my opinion it's not a hack technique, they do this stuff all the time in movies. hell, in easy rider they flashed to the scene where the 2 guys die before you even know they will. |
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Thunndarr
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| billybrobby wrote: |
| Thunndarr wrote: |
| billybrobby wrote: |
| Thunndarr wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Hater Depot wrote: |
| In the story it is ambiguous how Jack died. One of (maybe the) final lines was "Was it the tire, or the tire iron?" |
Interesting. For me, one of the few things that was actually clearly stated in the movie was how and why he died. I mean, they showed you the scene, so how can there be any doubt? |
Uh, because that scene is showing what Enis is thinking at that moment (which may be the truth.) |
i disagree with this as well. it think when it flashes to the dead body, that was intended to be reality, not just the guy's thoughts. |
That doesn't really make sense, for several reasons. First of all, who, exactly is having this flashback? The dead guy? The wife who wasn't there? Second, if it wasn't a flashback, then the scene should have appeared earlier in the movie, when Jack actually died, not when Enis found out about it. Third, the scene is disjointed, and we are left only with an impression of what happened. Fourth, and probably the best reason that it wasn't literally what happened, is that putting that scene in there as the literal truth would amount to directorial hackery. Good directors don't need to spell things out so obviously. It would be like if Ridley Scott had a big scrolling message at the end of Blade Runner "PSST! DECKARD'S A REPLICANT!" |
alright...
first. yeah, it's not a flashback. i just used to word 'flash' because they showed the body briefly.
second. You know in CSI when the guy says "and then the bullet went into the brain" and they show you the computer effects of the bullet going into the brain. Or they say "and then we stole the wallet" and it shows the guy stealing the wallet. It's the same thing. notice in CSI they only show stuff that really happened, it's not somebody imagination.
third. not everything's gotta be linear. the show the image of the body as the subject gets brought up.
fourth. we're having this debate and you're saying it would spell things out too clearly? in my opinion it's not a hack technique, they do this stuff all the time in movies. hell, in easy rider they flashed to the scene where the 2 guys die before you even know they will. |
Ok, well, in CSI they show stuff that they *think* happens all the time, as they modify their theories, so I'm not even sure why you brought this up, as it doesn't remotely support your point.
Next, you mention how not everything has to be linear. Well duh. However, in a movie where EVERYTHING else is linear, except for ONE scene that is clearly a flashback (the old gay couple, dead in a ditch), it doesn't make sense to introduce a new narrative technique, especially at the end of the movie.
(You may also have noticed that the scene where Enis is talking about the old couple who got killed is filmed in the exact same style as when we're shown Jack being bashed. Why is that exactly? It makes sense if we're seeing what Enis is thinking.)
Finally, about Easy Rider...Your example doesn't apply, by definition. You said the director was giving people information they had no way of knowing (the guys dying.) My point was about directors who underscore things that are readily apparent to most viewers. Two completely different situations. |
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