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cerulean808
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:31 am Post subject: |
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Ok BJ your up for a rational chat from time to time, just not on this board obviously. Took a look at your link. 'Swedish Welfare State Collapses', 'The Collapse of France', 'Eurabia'. The only thing missing is the page 3 nudy pics This tabloid reporting informs your opinions and you think your going to be taken seriously? You dont even make good target practice.
Bigverne, no better . Hiding behind sneering cynicism, cut and pasting undigested tracts from dodgy neo con think tanks. The '...hatred that is spewed out of many mosques...', if true, is equalled only by that coming from you.
Damn there needs to be a way to inforce quality control on this board. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| The '...hatred that is spewed out of many mosques...', if true, is equalled only by that coming from you. |
Another purveyor of moral equivalence, and ad hominem attacks in place of evidence. To the best of my knowledge, I have never called for holy war, or sought to justify suicide bombings. I have criticised an ideology (Islam) and proposed that Muslim immigration be ended. In your simplistic world, that is obviously akin to people who incite murder and Jihad. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| cut and pasting undigested tracts from dodgy neo con think tanks |
A good way to idly dismiss something without actually contesting its content is to smear it as 'right-wing', or 'neo-con', as if this somehow refutes any of evidence that such sources contain. This is commonly knows as 'shooting the messenger' and is used by people bereft of any arguments that support their position. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:09 am Post subject: ... |
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Are you suggesting that a religion of millions has it in for the west?
I HAVE asked you this before, but I'd rather not go through the flotsam of old posts to find your answer.
Your answer, as I recall, was yes. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you suggesting that a religion of millions has it in for the west? |
I have stated that Islam is an essentially intolerant religion that is at odds with human rights, democracy and fundamental freedoms. I have stated that Muslim immigration to the West has been a disaster and should be ended.
But in answer to your rather silly question, yes Islam is a great threat to the West. Perhaps a greater threat even than fascism or communism. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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sad to say but human rights have long been considered a Western creation.
As for democracy? Well, you sure as *beep* better hope not since the US keeps putting their mitts down the middle eastern throats hoping to create democracies everywhere.
If this TRULY were the case, why are americans fighting for democracy in the middle east?
and what exactly are "fundamental freedoms"? Is that a SPECIFIC set of freedoms, or your list of favorites?
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| Perhaps a greater threat even than fascism or communism. |
either of those IS a threat??? |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| Well, you sure as *beep* better hope not since the US keeps putting their mitts down the middle eastern throats hoping to create democracies everywhere. |
You really think that if the US was not there, places like Sudan, Libya, and the Gulf states would be liberal democracies?
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| and what exactly are "fundamental freedoms"? |
Freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, freedom to live one's life unhindered by the religious police. You know, small things like that. Such things either do not exist in Muslim states, or they are severely curtailed. Try being a Muslim and converting to Christianity in say, Sudan, or for that matter Pakistan.
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| either of those IS a threat??? |
What I meant was that Islam is a greater threat to the West, then either fascism or communism were. I think you knew that is what I meant. |
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cerulean808
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:11 am Post subject: |
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This from you Bigverne
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| I have stated that Islam is an essentially intolerant religion that is at odds with human rights, democracy and fundamental freedoms. |
and this from your Mar 28 Afghanistan Christian Convert Facing Death post
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| Firstly, I never stated that Islam was incompatible with democracy. I stated quite clearly that Islam is 'incompatible with notions of freedom and human rights'. |
This kind of contradictory, illogical thinking isn't a surprise coming from you. Little time is needed dealing with the 'content' of your arguments because there virtually is none. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Let me reiterate - Islam is incompatible with notions of liberal democracy (which includes the protection of minorities, freedom of speech), and freedom and human rights. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Let me reiterate - Islam is incompatible with notions of liberal democracy (which includes the protection of minorities, freedom of speech), and freedom and human rights. |
Indonesia.....(cough) |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| cerulean808 wrote: |
Ok BJ your up for a rational chat from time to time, just not on this board obviously. Took a look at your link. 'Swedish Welfare State Collapses', 'The Collapse of France', 'Eurabia'. The only thing missing is the page 3 nudy pics This tabloid reporting informs your opinions and you think your going to be taken seriously? You dont even make good target practice.
Damn there needs to be a way to inforce quality control on this board. |
So, do you have an imaginary friend or not?
The Swedish welfare state is under huge strain. Malmo is a no-go area for Swedes. France is in the beginning of an intifada. You can disagree all you want. Your kids will read about it, even if you want to ignore it.
I don't need to be taken seriously. I'm right. If one were to take you seriously one would have to take seriously the hubris of a grown man/woman with an imaginary friend.
But, tell you what, since you are the citation police for Dave's, why don't you post a list of acceptable sites/mags/papers etc. and I'll try real hard, Real Real hard, to not get ur pink panties in a knot ever again. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:11 am Post subject: |
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Bali bombings..(cough)
Beheaded schoolgirls.... (cough)
Church burnings..... (cough)
Rising Islamic fundamentalism..... (cough)
Holding up Indonesia as some kind of beacon of Islamic tolerance and liberal democracy is laughable. Let's not even get started on the rest of the Islamic world.
I'll agree with you that, in comparison to the majority of Muslim states (which are intolerant and illiberal), Indonesia is relatively tolerant, but that really isn't saying much. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Let me reiterate - Islam is incompatible with notions of liberal democracy (which includes the protection of minorities, freedom of speech), and freedom and human rights. |
Agreed.
And yes, Indonesia, a model example of a Liberal State. Right.
What really bugs me is that most Western nations are still far from socially liberal places as well. In many countries, and not just America, a battle with Christianity is still being waged (though, unlike the muslims, the Xians don't blow themselves up -- a small distinction, I'm sure). And now our countries are importing some of the most illiberal swine that the world can produce. A giant leap backwards for all, especially gays, jews, women and anyone who likes to have fun. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
Bali bombings..(cough)
Beheaded schoolgirls.... (cough)
Church burnings..... (cough)
Rising Islamic fundamentalism..... (cough)
Holding up Indonesia as some kind of beacon of Islamic tolerance and liberal democracy is laughable. Let's not even get started on the rest of the Islamic world.
I'll agree with you that, in comparison to the majority of Muslim states (which are intolerant and illiberal), Indonesia is relatively tolerant, but that really isn't saying much. |
You have no idea really. Just a matter of choosing what you want to believe, again. Those of us who know the situation on the ground know better. If you left your dreary, rainy little island every once in a while you might notice something;. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| You have no idea really. |
All of the things I have stated were facts, were they not? Once again, if you are holding up Indonesia as an example of how Islam is compatible with human rights and liberal democracy, then you really are clutching at straws. Indonesia is about the best the Islamic world can come up with, and that's really rather telling, isn't it? |
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