Korean Job Discussion Forums

[BigBlackEquus]

I have been working at a university for a little while now. It is a fairly decent gig, for a uni job. It's not one of the top-tier uni jobs, but it's better than many of the out-of-Seoul gigs I hear about where people make just 1.9. I'm at 2.1 plus a bit of OT for teaching 3 hours above 15 per week.

I'm not in a unigwon (at least it's not one yet, although the boss is exploring the idea). I work three days a week (Wed-Friday) and teach 18 hours. I work a lot more than that checking homework, preparing, and so on. I wouldn't feel like I was doing it right if I didn't. I'm not complaining.

Because I've been in Korea for several years, I always felt like the logical progression was to work my way up to a university. I've been to bars and socialized with other teachers as they bragged about their uni gigs and the loads of vacation they got. They were proud to be where they were, and not at all shy to boast -- often with an attitude. I hated that attitude, and was almost embarrased to hear it. I vowed that if I ever progressed to a university, I wouldn't be arrogant.

Before I worked here, I was at a high school. I left that school because Kyonngi-do decided to play with the vacation time. In my first year, I had nearly 3 1/2 months of vacation. It was great. I had three to four weeks off between semesters, and taught 16 to 18 hours during a 10 to 4 M-F schedule. There were days and weeks that popped up where the students had tests, and I was told not to come to class. I had one of the sweeter high school gigs, for sure.

I now realize that the time I worked at that high school was a special time I will never forget. Kids often brought me candy and treats. They waved at me and said hi in the halls. I was treated like a superstar. I was their teacher and a friend. I still keep in touch with several of them by e-mail or phone, and had coffee with two former students (now uni students) last week.

My Korean co-workers were great. Many spoke English. The administration left the foreigners alone. They gave me evening hours when I requested them, bringing my legal salary up to nearly 3 million per month (for about 6 months out of the year). I had no homework to check, and was asked not to give them much to do outside of class (so they could study for the big Korean tests).

Compared to other public high school jobs (mine was private) it was a great job. Working at a high school is better than working at a middle school. You get more hidden vacation. Unfortunately, a good thing often changes simply because the boss likes to show he/she is the boss.

At my old high school, the location grew increasingly boring (Bundang) while the traffic became worse. Kyonngi-do screwed with the vacation, or our advisor did, probably after being pushed by Kyonngi-do. My contract went from 3 1/2 months vacation down to 2 weeks, but I still got about 3 to 3 1/2 months off of the books. Then this past year, I was told I would be teaching more camps and lose a lot more of the vacation. Rather than cow-tow and accept yet another worse contract, I accepted a uni-gig, and shocked the high school by leaving. The school hired someone to replace me, but they couldn't get anyone until they gave promised more vacation time than just 2 weeks. I met him, and I'm sure he's doing fine.


Now for some honest comparisions:

At a high school, you are a superstar. If you do a good job, the students love you, and tell you so. At a university, you are just another teacher. It's a bit early to tell, but it feels like I'll never experience the feeling of being part of a family that I experienced at my high school. Even the other teachers here (Koreans) are not so interested in chatting with me, or even smiling at me in the halls as they pass. At the high school, the attention was almost suffocating at times.

Pay is the same (on the surface), but the high school offered more benefits. My high school had a much better national pension, and I didn't need to be vested. The uni pension is private, and I must become vested after a period of years to get it all back. The kicker is that you will likely be fired/terminated before the time when you become vested. You can pick that up again at another university (they will likely have the same pension) but either way, you'll need to stay in Korea for several years to collect. My high school paid in/matched something like 83,000 won each month, which added up after two years since I had to contribute an equal amount. I will get all of that back. National pension is nice.

The high school paid my visa run to Japan (about 600,000 won including all costs). The uni did not. The high school also paid me a year-end bonus (2,000,000 won). The uni does not. This can all be counted as income, and in effect, reduces the uni monthly salary by a few hundred thousand won when you compare the two jobs.

I have learned I was lied to in my uni interview. I was told that OT would be 30,000 per hour. It is not. It is 17,000 per hour. The contract at the uni job was very short -- one page -- and had no mention of OT. I knew what I was getting myself into by signing a very short contract. They refused to alter the contract in any way, except for the pay (which I argued up and got, btw). I figured that if they decided to screw me this year, I would just go home. Other teachers at the school said I shouldn't worry much, so I signed anyway (had to sign then, or never). I'll talk more about this later, as it is a good story.

I was told I would be able to have a hand in choosing my housing. I really didn't have a hand, other than being told I had to accept the little box I live in. I tried demanding another place, but was told I was "being difficult." They pay all of my utilities here, but my high school didn't pay my expensive Bundang utilities. That is something to count for/against in income as well. I was paying nearly 250,000 won per month in utilities at the high school housing. Here, the utilities are much less, but I pay nothing.

In short, the housing here sucks. My coworkers are lucky and have nicer, although older 2 bedroom places next to the school (literally on the school grounds -- too close, really). I am in a 10 pyung box, and have yet to receive my promised AC. I was told it will be installed in April when they update the school's AC, so I shouldn't worry about it. Time is apparently scheduled. My housing provided by the high school was a very nice, new offictell. AC was included.

The area around the university is not good. No good restaurants. Only little sandwich shops and finger-food places that close when students aren't around (my uni is very small). Bummer, since I eat out every meal. My old apartment in Bundang was located near several nice restaurants, although they became incresingly expensive and started charging tax. If I stick around here next year, I will definately take the small 300,000 per month and find my own place elsewhere.

My university bosses are talking about becoming a unigwon. My boss wondered if I'd like to work on Saturday a month, from 9a to 9p, teaching kids and adults. I said she'd be hard pressed to find any foreigners who would, because we like our weekends off -- unless it paid VERY well. I suggested 50,000 won per hour. She didn't seem to get it. After all, it's just one Saturday per month.

Ooops... phone call and no time to proof. I will finish this comparison later.

[Lemonade]

Okay, so you had a public high school job that you loved but it turned sour in the end due to decreased benefits. You looked for a university job and you found one. Congratulations! This is what you wanted and you worked hard to get it. Right? Now you are seeing that there's a difference between where you worked before and where you work now. We all make these comparisons when we change employers. These are growing pains. Are you somehow having regrets? If so, I think that is a total waste of your mental energy.

I recently made a similar change so I have some idea of what you are experiencing. However, I cannot relate to being a "superstar" back where I use to work. I am often treated like one at the university but I hate it. I want to be treated like a professional faculty member so I don't appreciate the hollaring, whistling and screaming that is likened to that of a "superstar." I'm sorry but it just makes me feel VERY uncomfortable. I am there to teach, not entertain. I make that clear, very clear. After time, I get honest respect. That is more rewarding to me. I'm not in Korea for an ego booster or popularity contest.

As for your contract, I think you could have negotiated a little better than you did. I refused to accept the offer unless they paid for my visa run to Japan and included the severance bonus. My salary is on the high end. I get about five months vacation a year and I teach less than 15 hours per week, four days a week.

You could have negotiated a higher overtime wage. 17,000 per hour overtime is a joke for a univeristy professor. No wonder why they are trying to get you to do some type of "unigwon" work. I'd say, "no way, if I wanted a hagwon job I would have applied at a hagwon." Tell them to find a hagwon teacher for a hagwon job. You should have noticed the that they omitted the OT in your contract and made a stink about that right away. You had only a one page contract?! I look those contracts over with a fine tooth comb and I get a copy of it in Korean too.

As for the other professors not smiling at you in the hallway, I don't worry about that in the least. Again, I'm not there for a popularity contest and this is Korea for crying out loud. Koreans don't make a habit of smiling in hallways as they pass by... they bow ... if they know you and they respect you. Come on, don't you know that?

[the_beaver]

Quite a few people also climb through the university system where they start out in a bush or minor league place, and move up after that.

[BigBlackEquus]

Really, you don't have to be so defensive lemonade. Whether or not someone enjoys being well-liked at thier school is their own business. I happened to enjoy that. Maybe you weren't well-liked at your previous school, and the students at the current gig haven't caught on to you yet. Maybe you demanded respect, and people thought you were an ass that they didn't like having around. I could care less. The point of this thread is to let current public/private school teachers know that they may not want to bother moving to a uni job. The trade-offs are good for us to talk about and share. Whenever I have drinks with other teachers, which is often, they ask me about it. I tell it like it is.

As for benefits at my previous job decreasing -- yes, that happened. But as I also mentioned, they couldn't hire a satisfactory replacement unless they offered what I wanted to stay in the first place. Although it was a great job, the ad looked like every other high school job out there, and they couldn't find a satisfactory replacement without putting the benefits on paper. They went through several teachers in one week before they realized they had to cave. They had to offer the new guy much of what I was getting, and guarentee it in his contract. That is a victory for all of us, and teachers like to hear about these kinds of things.

Everyone's job may differ. As for doing a better job of negotiating, I felt I did quite well. The pay raise I negotiated ended up being given to all of the foreigners in the department. I certainly haven't heard them complaining that I negotiated poorly.

Negotiating with Koreans (in English teaching -- which is a minor-league job compared to the rest of the world no matter where you work) has more to do with catching them in a desperate situation and knowing how to take advantage of it than anything else. You might seem like Joe Dimaggio super-major-league teacher on paper, but if you demand more than they are interested in paying, they will simply hire the next guy. Pimp your self-confidence all you want -- we're teachers, not surgeons or professional sports stars.

Not every university job out there is a Hongdae offering 5 months of vacation. Not every university job pays 3.5 million won per month (I bet you can count those schools using barely a few fingers on one hand). And certainly not everyone starts at that rate.

The sad truth is that most unis in Korea will cycle new blood through the program every 3 to 4 years anyway, so the cushy job you may have now will likely kick your butt out of the door and hire the next individual -- probably from "the minor leagues" in a few years. Term limits are a reality of uni teaching, as is the unigwonization that's happening all over. Of course, that is likely the burr in your shorts which caused you to vent frustrations upon my thread.

I just want to tell it like it is. Uni jobs involve more work for the same money, if you want to do it right. You may or may not like that. I enjoy where I'm at now. It's just a different kind of enjoyment which may or may not be something people should bother to strive for.

[The Bobster]

[poet13]

BigBlackEquus Nice post. Thank you.

[SarcasmKills]

[BigBlackEquus]

[Real Reality]

[HapKi]

In my experience, a big benefit of college work can be summed up in three words, AUTONOMY, AUTONOMY, and AUTONOMY.

[Zark]

I have to agree that there is a serious downward trend with most university positions. In 1993 when I took my first one - almost ALL were 10-12 hours a week with the five month vacations. Those perks are now unusual.

Plus the growing implementation of the "three year" thing - is chasing people away as well.

I have to agree - the new public school gigs are sounding much better. But, my one hang up is I tend to prefer teaching adults.

[coolsage]

[PRagic]

If you work for a university department AND you are teaching at their institute, be sure to have that pay reflected in your severance. At one of the top-five universities in Seoul, they are now saying that they don't want the department teachers to teach at the institute anymore.

The jobs with proper vacations and contact hours are virtually gone. A few of us are still on the 12 contact hours, no camps, high pay, and long vacations packages, but, then again, we are being phased out. The new teachers coming in will make a lot less and work a lot more.

The standards for university jobs here are simply just too low, making it too easy for the universities to recruit foreign staff. Even with the deteriorating employment terms, these jobs still beat working for an institute. The situation won't get any better until they make the MA mandatory for university positions, and the top tier universities only hire Ph.D.s.

Here's a kicker: Next semester, our last, the department wants us all to submit day-by-day course outlines, even for the advanced context classes that we personally developed. Funny stuff...imposing term limits and then getting teachers to leave their courses, fully developed, behind. Don't think I'll be forking mine over. What are they going to do?

Enjoy the university work while you can, and shoot for the best positions you can. The middle/highschool work is underpaid, and unless you are an ed. major, useless as far as experience goes.

[Lemonade]

[Real Reality]