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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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 Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: 10 yr old student's science project blocked from display |
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Don't we continually hear about how NA students need to do more science and math lest we fall behind as a "Great Power"?!
By the time a kid is 6, I'm sure they've already seen rotting roadkill and Other Dead Stuff.
This girl deserves a medal and a secured spot at a top university one day. The school officials deserve to be fired and learn not be so scared of natural processes--those kids see a lot worse on TV!
Scott Rappold, The Gazette, Thursday April 20th
Piglet mummification results judged too graphic for Stetson Elementary's fair:
This little piggy was preserved in salt. This little piggy had its organs and brain removed. This little piggy was crawling with maggots. This little piggy was partially mummified.
It was, admitted 10-year-old Whitney Ongraham, pretty gross, and the glass jars did little to contain the putrid oder of rot.
But it was her science project, approved by her teacher, and she was outraged Wednesday when officials at Stetson Elementary wouldn't let her exhibit it.
"I just feel it was unfair. Everyone else got to show theirs and just because of the graphicness, I wasn't able to show mine," said Whitney, a fourth-grader.
Schools officials said Wednesday that the display was too graphic for elementary students to be exposed to.
The science fair was for fifth-graders, but Whitney was among some fourth-graders who decided to do projects just for fun.
An avid readoer about ancient Egypt, she came up with the hypothesis that a piglet mmified with the ancient techniques would decay more slowly than others.
"I thought, it must have taken a lot of hard work to make something that would normally decompose very fast stay for 3,000 years in perfect condition," she said.
It was pretty advanced for a 10-year old.
"It was her idea and I, as a parent, went with it," said her mother, Teisha Ingraham. "I can't help it if it was more advanced than the other kids. That's what she wanted to do."
The piglets came already dead from a butcher who discovered a slaughtered sow was pregnant. On March 17, she removed the organs and the brains-using the ancient Egyptian technique, a hook that pulls it through the nose-rubbed it with Kahlua and covered it with salt.
She perfromed partial mummification on two others, and left another untouched.
She did it herself, too-in the family kitchen. She worked at least 40 hours on it.
When she took them to school this week, though, her teacher and the principal decided she couldn't show it in the science fair.
They let her show it to her class, and six students-out of 20-excused themsleves.
The school's principal declined to comment, but Falcon District 49 spokesman Joe Cole said school oficials were told the pigs would be wrapped in cloth.
It was the first time the school had prohibited a science fair exhibit from being shown, Cole said.
"Basically, we don't want first-,second-,third,-and fourth-graders seeing those pigs," Cole said. "One of them has maggots crawling all over it. The other jar is full of blood and the pig."
Whitney's mother, though, said she told them all along the piglets wouldn't be wrapped, because that was the only way to show the decay.
"I totally understand, as a parent, I would not want my first-,second-,third-grader looking at this," she said. "But she did the proper steps. She got approval. She did what she was supposed to do."
Since the project was voluntary, Whitney will not get a bad grade, and she does not face any discipline.
But she said the episode has made her not want to do a science project next year, when it will be graded.
"I have a child who loves to learn," her mother said. "I'm frustrated you're taking something that should be a positive and making something negative out of it. I don't want her love of science to be killed over this."
Whitney said she still wants to attend Oxford or the University of California, to be an Egyptologist.
For now, she plans to dismantle the experiment and get rid of three of the pigs. She'll keep the partially mummified one. It has to sit in salt for another month and then be wrapped.
"It will preserved for 1,000 years," she said. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| The piglets came already dead from a butcher who discovered a slaughtered sow was pregnant. On March 17, she removed the organs and the brains-using the ancient Egyptian technique, a hook that pulls it through the nose-rubbed it with Kahlua and covered it with salt. |
Holy smokes, I'm pretty sure I couldn't complete that now, but at 10 years old, I would've thrown up then fainted.
It's a tough call for that school too, I don't think there are any bad guys in this story, but it is a real shame that the incident has killed a gifted child's desire to participate in future projects. |
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justagirl
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Cheonan/Portland
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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If she chooses not to participate in future projects, then that is her decision. So be it. It's not like her entire interest in learning has been totally crushed because she didn't get to diplay maggoty, dead piglets in a non-required science fair.
Good for her for doing a project. Good for her mom for the support. I'm sure the teachers encouraged and supported her learning as well. In the end, it is totally inappropriate to display something like that at an elementary school setting where young children are present.
This story is just an example of the media trying to make a school look bad. That's why they put in the little line, "Since the project was voluntary, Whitney will not get a bad grade, and she does not face any discipline." Why even write that? Because it introduces a doubt into the readers' minds that perhaps the school considered disciplining her and portrays them as "the bad guys." |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:04 am Post subject: |
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How hard would it be to sequester the exhibit with dividers, put up a description and sign that says entr at your own risk?
PC freaking idiots... |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: |
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How hard would it be to sequester the exhibit with dividers, put up a description and sign that says entr at your own risk?
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I think it would be rather disruptive to have that kind of sequestering at a children's science fair. You'd have some parents allowing their kids to see it, and some parents not. And the kids who weren't allowed to see it would be screaming blue murder at their parents, because their friends would all talking about how cool it is. Plus, the kids who did get to see it would be ridiculing the kids who didn't for being "wusses" or whatever the word is nowadays. |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Justagirl wrote:
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it is totally inappropriate to display something like that at an elementary school setting where young children are present.
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But why is it "inappropriate" exactly? It's simply an experiment showing natural processes of decay vs natural processes of embalming practiced by the Egyptians. How could this be "inappropriate?"
Boys at that age are sticking firecrackers into the mouths of frogs and blowing them up sort of thing!
I recall somewhat of the same reaction here by certain elements of the population towards the human plastination exhibit which toured worldwide--which turned out to be a smash success here as well. When do kids get to take such a close look at the marvels of human architecture?
I was raised by parents who didn't think it was necessary to "shield" me from (reality?) normal biological processes in life--we all die and rot... returning from whence we came!...I guess which is why I find this school's reaction ridiculous. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| canuckistan wrote: |
I recall somewhat of the same reaction here by certain elements of the population towards the human plastination exhibit which toured worldwide--which turned out to be a smash success here as well. |
I saw a couple fo examples as previews for the full exhibit at the Ontario Science Centre and decided to pass on it when it came. I guess I'm one of the wusses, certainly glad I never tried to get into med school! 
(my mom saw the exhibit and said it was great) |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:06 am Post subject: |
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50% support either way.
That girl is smart and someone just stomped on it. Good on them, it really helped her development  . What will they say in 20 yrs if she turned out to be a genius 
Man, we are crushing the future under foot, while supporting other nations to develop. I wonder who is benefiting. Its not America in that instance. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| canuckistan wrote: |
Justagirl wrote:
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it is totally inappropriate to display something like that at an elementary school setting where young children are present.
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But why is it "inappropriate" exactly? It's simply an experiment showing natural processes of decay vs natural processes of embalming practiced by the Egyptians. How could this be "inappropriate?"
Boys at that age are sticking firecrackers into the mouths of frogs and blowing them up sort of thing!
I was raised by parents who didn't think it was necessary to "shield" me from (reality?) normal biological processes in life--we all die and rot... returning from whence we came!...I guess which is why I find this school's reaction ridiculous. |
Not all children, not even all boys, will have been blowing up frogs and watching them go splat. Some children are very sensitive, and I know of some who will not eat meat because they've been traumatised after seeing animals slaughtered. For certain children, the decomposing piglets might be very disturbing - horrifying perhaps if they have recently lost a loved grandparent or pet and relate the decomposing process to what's happening to their loved one. Between the ages of 7 and 11 I was very depressed and dwelt on death (and my consuming fear of it) for much of that time. Spotting a maggot-ridden duck in a pond near my house precipitated a very dark episode at age 10. I suspect that if I had been exposed to those piglets - it would have tortured me hideously. You never know what's going on in the minds of certain children, and I think that in this case they probably made the right decision. Perhaps it could have been handled better however, with the school publicly praising the girl, and explaining why the piglets could not be shown. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I think the school over-reacted. Kids see road-kill all the time. The curious ones go up and poke at 'em with a stick. The sensitive say, "Yuck!" and turn away. I think the school could have posted a sign warning that this exhibit might be gross to some and let the kids determine for themselves who wants to see it and who doesn't. |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Big_Bird wrote:
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| Not all children, not even all boys, will have been blowing up frogs and watching them go splat. Some children are very sensitive, and I know of some who will not eat meat because they've been traumatised after seeing animals slaughtered. For certain children, the decomposing piglets might be very disturbing - horrifying perhaps if they have recently lost a loved grandparent or pet and relate the decomposing process to what's happening to their loved one. |
Certainly some children are more sensitive to what may be perceived by some as "horrible" --I think that's largely an urban thing though--rural and farm kids have few qualms about slaughtered animals--they KNOW how their dinner got to the table--they probably watched Dad do it! I think from living on a farm they also understand a great deal more about *the cycle of life*--and that's what this is sort of all about. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| canuckistan wrote: |
Big_Bird wrote:
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| Not all children, not even all boys, will have been blowing up frogs and watching them go splat. Some children are very sensitive, and I know of some who will not eat meat because they've been traumatised after seeing animals slaughtered. For certain children, the decomposing piglets might be very disturbing - horrifying perhaps if they have recently lost a loved grandparent or pet and relate the decomposing process to what's happening to their loved one. |
Certainly some children are more sensitive to what may be perceived by some as "horrible" --I think that's largely an urban thing though--rural and farm kids have few qualms about slaughtered animals--they KNOW how their dinner got to the table--they probably watched Dad do it! I think from living on a farm they also understand a great deal more about *the cycle of life*--and that's what this is sort of all about. |
I lived on a farm, aged 10-17. Myself and my siblings would form relationships with certain animals, only to find them in the freezer a year or two later, or worse, hear them screaming in mortal fear as they were slaughtered. We would sit at the table, angry and defiant as the meat was served, and refuse to participate. We were ridiculed by the adults, and belittled for our refusal to accept it as 'a necessary part of life.' We emerged a family of vegetarians, believing that the suffering and killing of another creature was totally unnecessary to sustaining our own existence.
This is not the experience of every farm dwelling child, I know, but I've met many vegetarians who list their close proximity to farm animals as a reason for not partaking in the meat industry. A school trip to an egg factory (battery hens) at aged nine, probably set my vegetarian inclinations in motion. I was shocked, and ashamed of what was done to these hens in order that I might eat eggs for breakfast. That wasn't the intention of the teachers - it was supposed to be an educational day out, and the birds' miserable existence was not pointed out to us. That was my own assessment - the horrible suffering of these birds kept 4 to a small cage was very clear.
Look, most children would look at the piglets and come away with no adverse reaction. They'd have a good chatter about it. But for some children, it may trigger a serious psychological reaction. For example, a refugee child who has seen the slaughter of human beings, may suffer terrible flashbacks on seeing such a display. And other reactions can not be foreseen. Many parents have no inkling about what may go on in their child's mind, many children are very secretive. A child's psyche is unknown and tender territory. For that reason, I would be very cautious about putting on such a display. It's not worth it if even one child suffers nightmares and depression from such a display -even if 500 kids get a thrill from it. We are talking about very young impressionable pre-adolescent kids here. I'm not one for messing with kids minds or their happiness - I know from firsthand experience how wretched and terrifying that can feel for a small child. As adults, I think many of us can no longer appreciate what it's like to be 9 years old. I think the organisers were right - although I question the way they've handled it. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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50% support either way.
That girl is smart and someone just stomped on it. Good on them, it really helped her development . What will they say in 20 yrs if she turned out to be a genius
Man, we are crushing the future under foot, while supporting other nations to develop. I wonder who is benefiting. Its not America in that instance. |
Well, I don't know if it's as melodramatic as all that.
In high school, the science teacher drew blood from a student in order to show us how to check blood type. But I don't think that would have been an appropriate exercise in a Grade 5 science class, where a lot of kids are still gonna be afraid of needles(yes, I realize kids get needles at that age, but pain and fear shouldn't be part of the learning process). I think the main thing about the mummified pigs was that they would be age-inappropriate.
I agree, the school could have handled it better. First of all, the teacher shouldn't have allowed the student to do the project without first ensuring that it would be entered into the fair. But since the kid was allowed to do the project, the school should have found a way to display the project without showing the actual pigs. Maybe have diagrams, or have the kid get up and explain to everyone what she did and what she proved.
And I don't buy the idea of having a segregated section with the girl's exhibit, for the reasons I outlined above. |
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Xerxes
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Location: Down a certain (rabbit) hole, apparently
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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B&W photos are ok with me.
They did that in "Kill Bill" and I thought that that was a good idea. I don't like gore either, and if I saw that in fourth grade, I would still not be eating bacon or Sam-gyup-sal, and my life would have been the poorer for having missed out on those foods but not necessarily the science exhibit. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:55 am Post subject: |
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This PC crap is just going way overboard. Let's see, it's age inappropriate for ten year-olds to see a science project on mummifcation, yet a ten year-old did it?
We can't sequester it because kids will tease each other? What the hell happened to parents and teachers and teaching basic politeness? The teachers/parents can't scold a rude child?
Are we serious?? |
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