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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: seoul
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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Some of us would rather die than be trapped in bondage. I guess people like you prefer bondage, as long as its more comfy than chaotic freedom.
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It's always so inspiring to hear a war wimp, safe in his/her shoe box apartment, spout off about how other people should spend their blood defending the war wimp's political views. Put up or shut up. |
Ya-Ta.....you are such a loser.
I tried to volunteer after 9/11, was too old.
I grew up with a non-obligatory military service. For you to judge me, who was NEVER ASKED and who was NEVER REQUIRED to serve in the military.....and who, when his country was attacked VOLUNTEERED and was politely turned down....is the height of presumption.
Where are you from by the way? and when and where have you volunteered to serve in a time of war???? |
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Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:10 am Post subject: |
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But back to the article in the OP- Victor Davis Hanson's analogy is clearly false.
And the date is April 12 (20006! but I think we'll ignore that part) yet I'm sure this is not the first time I've seen Iraq compared to California, so I wonder- is he recycling his own old idea? |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: seoul
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:48 am Post subject: |
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VDH's point is that the media is portraying Iraq in the most negative way possible.
Some of this is intentionally anti-Bush, and some is simply news-creationism.
Why doesn't the media do stories on Iraq's flourishing media, the dozens (hundreds??) of web cafes that have sprouted around the country, the hundreds of thousands of people who have bought cell phones.....
Do ya think that he pathological hatred of Bush among those on the left that inhabit the American media might have something to do with it....just a tiny smidgen????
History will be the judge. And hopefully (and if you can't agree with the following wish, you are truly twisted in your thinking) Bush et al's decision to depose Saddam & Sons and let the Iraqi people have a shot at freedom and democracy will be seen as the first great event of the 21st century. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: seoul
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:53 am Post subject: |
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here's some things the elite media isn't telling you
Ninety-eight percent of Iraqi children under five have been vaccinated for polio, and Malaria cases have dropped from 1,043 to 86.
Iraq has six police academies, with one in Jordan, that train 3,500 police every 10 weeks.
During Saddam's rule, Internet access was limited and censored. Today, Iraqis are flocking to an uncensored Internet in Iraq, with over 2,000 Internet cafes serving them.
About 90,000 residents in the city of Abu Ghraib will receive piped drinking water from a project funded by the Commander's Emergency Response Program.
Progress in the area of education:
In 2003, approximately 6.1 million children were enrolled in Iraq's lower education system. Of these only about 2.96 million were expected to graduate from secondary school. Now, in 2006 nearly 25 percent of the Iraqi population either attends a school of, or is directly employed by, the Ministry of Education. With a 2006 budget of $1.9 million (up 66 percent from 2005), the ministry oversees more than 20,000 school sessions in over 14,731 school buildings, administrative offices, and educational facilities nationwide. The MoED provides the oversight and training needed to support 500,000 teachers in their work with 6.28-6.4 million K-12 students a 3-5 percent increase from 2003.
In 2003 there were 14,731 kindergarten, elementary, and secondary schools, most of which suffered from years of neglect by the Saddam regime, an insurgency intent on intimidating teachers and students, and the damage caused by war. Over the last three years nearly 6,000 of those schools have been renovated or undergone some form of rehabilitation.
In 2003, the Ministry of Higher Education and Scientific Research (MHESR) consisted of 22 universities, 46 institutes or colleges within the Community College system, 2 commissions and 2 research centers. Since 2003, MHESR has, in addition to continuous work on its facilities and infrastructure that had been largely destroyed by war and looting, has been able to install nearly a dozen new colleges within its university system.
In addition, more than 2,500 schools have been rehabilitated and 45 new schools built. Educational supplies have been provided to more than 3 million Iraqi school children.
Although mostly ignored by the media, there have been major accomplishments in the reconstruction of Iraq:
The Iraq Relief & Reconstruction Fund ($2.5 billion) and supplemental Appropriations ($18.4 billion) have been committed to the re-building of Iraq. As of 7 March 2006, $18.6 billion (of which $11.4 billion is obligated for DoD projects) has been obligated on Iraqi reconstruction.
Since March 2003, more than 11,600 construction projects have been started. More than 9,340 projects, valued at $9.3 billion, have been completed.
Since March 2003 $9.6 billion (IRRF 1 - $2.5 billon, IRRF 2 - $7.1 billion) has been focused on providing reliable essential services (electricity, water, transportation, telecommunications, and oil). More than 2,412 essential service projects are either completed or underway.
Before March 2003, Iraq averaged 4,300 MW of peak electricity generation, supplying Baghdad with 12-24 hours of power a day by diverting power from the rest of Iraq, left with 4-8 hours of power, however today the average Iraqi citizen has 7 hours of electrical service in Baghdad and 10-12 hours in the rest of the country. It is expected to be 12 to 14 hours over the next year.
Before March 2003, only 5.5 million of Iraq's 25 million citizens had access to a safe and stable water supply. Iraq's cities suffered from inadequate sewage systems, today nineteen potable water treatment facilities have been built or rehabilitated, providing a standard level of service to about 2.7 million more Iraqis. In addition eight centralized sewage treatment facilities have been rehabilitated, adding capacity to benefit 4.9 million Iraqis.
Health care for some ethnic groups was almost nonexistent under Saddam's regime, today there are over 300 new health care facility projects across Iraq and over 270 projects underway to be completed by mid-year 2007 allowing an additional 7 million Iraqi citizens, regardless of ethnicity, geographic origin, gender, or religious affiliation, access to health care that was unavailable under the old regime. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: seoul
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: |
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and from an American General NOT angling for a job with a future Democratic administration.....
I want to talk about four specific indicators on operations here in Iraq, and I don��t want to talk about what happened yesterday. I want to talk over a period of time to give you a sense of the trend lines that we see.
And these are four that I��ve talked to you about before, but allow me to give you an update.
We believe that 90 percent of the suicide attacks in Iraq are conducted by foreign fighters—al Qaeda, Zarqawi commissioning foreign fighters to conduct these suicide attacks.
Last year this time, across Iraq, we were averaging about 75 suicide attacks a day. Now we��re averaging about 24 a day.
One of the reasons for that drawdown is not that Zarqawi and al Qaeda doesn��t want to do it anymore, but effective border operations have been capturing foreign nationals at the border.
And I talked you through last week in great detail what��s happened on the Iraqi border. Last November the Iraqi government declared initial control of the borders, and over time they��ve placed Department of Border Enforcement personnel—20,000 people, on the borders, 258 border camps—to stop this flow of foreign nationals into Iraq, some of which are coming in to be used as suicide bombers.
So if you look closely at what��s happened, just before the first of the year, we were averaging about 44 captured foreign nationals per month, and now we��re down to less than half of that.
The effect of that is reduction in the number of suicide attacks in Iraq: over 70 a year ago, 24 now.
I talked about IEDs and IEDs that are found and cleared. We have reached the point where almost 50 percent of the IEDs are found and cleared before they detonate. And people say, ��Well, why is that?�� A reason why that is, is the number of sophisticated bomb-makers we��ve been able to take off the battlefield here in Iraq.
There are indeed with—people with talent and capability that can build a reliable IED, one that will function as designed. What we��ve been doing is a conscious effort with the Iraqi security forces to take those guys off the battlefield and either kill or capture them. And you can see that we took over—took out 115 in the year 2005. And since the first of the year, we��ve taken out an additional 26.
The effect of that is, IEDs are produced that are less effective. And in many cases, we��re finding the people that are emplacing the IEDs are killed by their own IEDs, or the IEDs that are emplaced don��t go off as detonated. And that��s because of the conscious decision to kill or capture bomb-makers.
I talk every Thursday about the weapons caches and weapons finds. And if you looked over the years 2005, we came across 2,880 weapons caches and since the first of the year almost 900 weapons caches.
Again, this goes to the effectiveness of the insurgents. In order to be able to create effective IEDs, he��s got to have technical expertise, and he��s got to have the proper munitions. A lot of these weapons caches we found had old munitions, but a lot of them had relatively new munitions that could build an effective bomb.
So as we look for bomb-makers and as we look for weapons caches to this level of effect, we are reducing the effectiveness of IEDs, VBIEDs and suicide car bombs, suicide vest packs, and also by taking out foreign nationals as they come across.
But I believe that the most important indicator on these charts, on this quad chart, is this one. And that��s the number of tips, actionable tips, that we are receiving from the people of Iraq. They have indeed reached the point where they��re tired of the insurgency, and they realize that they are indeed the target of attacks by the insurgency. The numbers of attacks against civilians, as I told you before, has doubled in the last four months, is up by 86 percent just in the last nine weeks.
So the people of Iraq are tired of the insurgency.
And what they��re doing is calling in actionable tips or providing tips to the 250,000 members of the Iraqi security force that are patrolling the streets of Iraq. They��re providing the information just like they did the IED on the mosque—and I showed you that operation with the 6th Iraqi Army Division. |
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Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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These are your positive stories? This is sad, especially if you take into account where the military said they'd be today 3 years ago when 'offensive operations' were declared over and landed on an aircraft carrier for a 'Victory!' photo op.
March 26, 2006
The Post and the Whole Picture in Iraq
(Newsbytes Via Thomson Dialog NewsEdge)
When the Iraq war started, more than 700 reporters were "embedded," traveling with U.S. troops in the field. Embedding brought a newfound respect between reporters and soldiers. Members of the media and the military hoped that this would bring a new day of military-press relations and help bury the resentment that had lingered from the Vietnam War.
Most reporters left after the big battles, and now, after three years of slogging through the insurgency, covering the war is mainly the province of those few news organizations, such as The Post, that can afford to do so.
The Post's work (and that of other news media in Iraq) draws intense attention and a steady stream of complaints from readers, military and civilian, who say the coverage is excessively negative and too focused on violence.
It's clear that many of those readers see war coverage through their own political filters. One reader wrote a Post reporter a few weeks ago: "Be nice to see your traitorous ass shot." Another reader who writes frequently, Bob Youcker of Bethesda, said: "Iraq is a country the size of California. Is there not one good thing happening in the country?"
Those complaints anger journalists who risked their lives to cover a war in which 67 of their colleagues have been killed and many others, including ABC-TV's Bob Woodruff, have been injured. There are other risks; Jill Carroll of the Christian Science Monitor is still held captive by terrorists.
After talking and corresponding with Post staffers and other journalists with Iraq experience and experts in and outside the military, I find no easy resolution to the complaints.
Here's why:
The press corps is trained to see the story, and the war is the story. The Post has heavily covered the efforts to build a democracy, but the continuing insurgency and the lack of security for Iraqis are still the main news.
Reporters are scrambling to keep up with daily events in an atmosphere so dangerous that Post reporters find it impossible to freely move and report.
There is a built-in tension between the press, always skeptical of authority, and the military culture of respecting authority and keeping secrets.
About 60 Post journalists, from the buildup to the war through the insurgency, have covered the war by being embedded with troops in the field; by traveling on their own; and by interviewing Iraqi politicians and civilians in Baghdad and around the country. Many have been there several times. The Post has three full-time U.S. employees in Iraq: Ellen Knickmeyer, the bureau chief; Jonathan Finer, a correspondent; and John Ward Anderson, in a position through which Post reporters rotate in for six to eight weeks at a time. The Post also has four Iraqi reporter-translators: Naseer Nouri, Omar Fekeiki, Bassam Sebti and K.I. Ibrahim.
The staff has written hundreds of daily news stories and dozens of more in-depth pieces. A recent reporting trip by senior military reporter Thomas E. Ricks produced broad and deep stories on counterinsurgency training; civilians in Iraq; the 3rd Armored Cavalry's improvement from mediocre to outstanding performance; how doctors are holding up under grueling conditions; and how the Army published a study by a senior British officer criticizing . . . the Army. Military reporter Ann Scott Tyson's story on the importance of female helicopter pilots showed how far the military has come in integrating its fighting force by gender.
Ricks believes problems in the relationship between the military and press "grow out of the fundamentally political nature of the fight. The military wants to be judged in military terms -- 'look at all the bad guys we killed, and don't forget the school our soldiers painted.' But the media, which is trained to measure the politics of a situation, knows the answer isn't killing bad guys, and may not be painting schools. It probably is providing security to the people.
"Now the Army is adjusting much more swiftly than it did during the Vietnam War. These days, I think, many commanders do understand those principles, but when they assert to reporters that they 'get it,' the reporters remember that division commanders back in 2003 and early 2004 also claimed to 'get it,' but back then were wrong. After hearing so many false assertions of progress, coming on top of a war launched on false premises, it may have become harder for journalists to recognize genuine signs of progress when or if they do occur. Once bitten, twice shy."
Readers have had many complaints about how and where stories about Iraq are displayed. Many readers complained when The Post ran results of the vote on Iraq's new constitution deep inside the paper last Oct. 26. Post editors said there were several front-page stories on the run-up to the election, predicting what happened. That didn't satisfy readers or me.
Sometimes it's the timing. Marine Col. David Lapan, a public affairs officer in Fallujah until recently, has written to me often about this.
A Post story on bombings and civilian casualties in late December brought this note from Lapan: "We have successful elections, the level of violence goes down, [Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld] announces a troop reduction, and we're treated to a front-page Post story about civilian casualties, one that is not particularly topical since the combat actions it describes happened weeks and months before. The story itself was fairly balanced. But the perception it leaves is that the Post . . . had to find something 'negative' to write about in the midst of many 'positive' developments in Iraq."
The story in question, by Ellen Knickmeyer, was fair; such stories often take months of reporting, and when they are ready, they go into the paper. Additionally, The Post had reported on troop reductions on Page 1 and the decline in violence didn't last long.
Tension can be expected between the military and the press in wartime. Lapan gave what I think is an excellent description of the cultural difference between the military and the press: "Reporters are generally idealists, trained to be skeptical (some would say cynical) and we're generally optimists and realists. Reporters are taught to question authority; we're taught to follow it."
Cori Dauber, professor of communications studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, closely monitors the media, war and terrorism. She is a research fellow at the Triangle Institute for Security Studies and writes and runs the http://rantingprofs.com/ blog.
Dauber starts off with two biases. She supports the war in Iraq and thinks The Post "is the best newspaper in the country and its Web site is 'the gold standard.' " She also said: "Post reporters get out more than anyone. The answer is not to push reporters to get out more, but to be more transparent about the limits of their reporting" and how much is done by Iraqi staff members. The Post regularly credits its Iraqi staffers in bylines and taglines.
Dauber said that "the constant rotation through Baghdad is a problem. It means reporters don't know military culture or doctrine or rank or weapons. But I completely understand the reasons why it's a necessity to rotate. But by the time they learn where the bathrooms are, they're gone."
David Hoffman, assistant managing editor for foreign news, supervises The Post's Iraq coverage. He says that the reporters who rotate in and out of Iraq "often prepare extensively, and some, like Ricks, are experts in their field."
Post reporter Steve Fainaru, who recently completed a 14-month stint in Iraq, sees it this way: "Everyone wants to read their view of the war in your story. To me the only issue is whether our stories are real or not. I never got complaints from the people who were involved in the subject matter of the stories.
"The job of soldiering over there is incredibly difficult. I have tremendous respect for those guys. The criticism completely misses the point. Iraq is on the verge of civil war. Where's the good news?"
Bryan Whitman, deputy assistant secretary of defense for public affairs, echoed Fainaru: "I have a tremendous respect for the journalists over there. I don't want to minimize the danger of operating in Iraq. Journalists are the target of the insurgency. They have competing pressures with limited resources.
"The center of gravity is still Baghdad," Whitman added. Reporters "have to cover the Iraq political process and do daily military stories. They are limited" in being able "to do enterprise and Iraqi life-type stories."
Yet Whitman is frustrated because he says soldiers and civilian reconstruction workers return to the United States from Iraq and complain that what they see in the way of economic and military progress isn't represented in news coverage. "When planes crash, it's news. When they don't, it's not. In Iraq, when there's an explosion, they cover it. When the roads are open and commerce and people are moving, it's not terribly interesting news."
Kenneth H. Bacon, a former Wall Street Journal reporter and Pentagon spokesman, can look at both sides of the problem. He is now president of Refugees International, a nonprofit advocacy group. "I can understand the administration's frustration. But I do think the press covered well the biggest success so far -- the political reconstitution of Iraq -- and the administration has gotten credit for what it's done."
Reconstruction, he said, "falls far short of a good story. Schools and hospitals are reopening and yet there are major complaints of a lack of gas, power and water and, most importantly, a lack of security. There has been a lot of fraud in the process with mismanagement or no management. Sure there have been achievements. But in the face of pervasive insecurity, what does the achievement mean?"
The dangers of reporting in Iraq have forced The Post and other bureaus to depend on Iraqi staffers. Rajiv Chandrasekaran, former Baghdad bureau chief and now assistant managing editor for continuous (online) news, said, "A lot of the reporting has to be by remote control. A lot of white-skinned Americans can't show up; it's way too dangerous."
That produces grumbling from military officials, who don't always trust Iraqi staffers or sources. But Chandrasekaran admires the Post's Iraqi staff: "They are professionals, from prominent and able families, often with multiple degrees. While it is difficult to engage in some kinds of reporting because of the danger, we have put our lives and our journalism in their hands again and again."
One of the Post's Iraqi staffers, Naseer Nouri, 48, was in the Washington area recently, attending a journalism workshop at the University of Maryland. Educated in the United States as a pilot and aircraft engineer, Nouri is now a Post special correspondent.
Why does he work for The Post, since it puts him in danger? Nouri said, "Of course, I'm afraid. I'm afraid I will die and not send the story. You have to be Iraqi to understand. I feel a responsibility. I cover the violence, the places [American] reporters can't go. If I don't go, who will cover it?"
What about good news? "Reporters report what they see. I can't remember good things not covered. We still don't have dependable electricity and water," Nouri said. But he doesn't want the U.S. military to leave. "Iraqis trust the U.S. military more than the Iraqi police and army," he said.
For journalists who want to be able to see the war up close, embedding with military units has been one of the most successful approaches. Under the program, reporters are given freedom to report in exchange for agreeing not to endanger units' operational security.
Reporters generally want such assignments where the action is; some commanders don't want a reporter's presence at all or retaliate against coverage they don't like by refusing embeds. Lapan and Lt. Col. Barry Johnson, head of the Combined Press Information Center (CPIC) in Baghdad, said embed assignments go begging. But reporters say they can't get the assignments they want. The commander of any unit has to agree to the reporter's presence.
Lapan said: "In my opinion, the biggest benefit to the embed program is the development of reporters who better understand military operations, who can provide full context to the events they witness, something that doesn't normally occur when reporters rely on stringers or alleged eyewitnesses." He thinks it is "shortsighted" for commanders to turn down reporter embeds.
Johnson said that the CPIC "tries to support what the commander wants, since they're fighting the war. We don't turn down embeds at all. When we get a request, it may be very specific or broader. We go to the unit involved. They manage their own embeds. We don't force them to take anyone; we're not going to force anyone to interact with media. We may offer advice and talk to them about their reasoning. In the end, we respect the wishes of the unit."
Reporters also complain that some commanders won't take reporters and try to manipulate coverage. Fainaru said he was refused embeds and that one commander put him under armed guard and had him removed from embedding because he didn't like a story Fainaru had written.
Joe Galloway, a legendary military correspondent who works in Knight Ridder's Washington bureau, said he was initially refused embeds as well. Galloway, co-author of a classic account of the Vietnam War, "We Were Soldiers Once . . . and Young," was offered embeds with logistics and support operations, when he wanted to be with combat troops. Galloway said that he told public affairs officers: "I've been covering the Marines for 41 years. I'll be happy to spend my whole time with the Army and I won't write the word 'Marine' in any story I do."
He ended up getting the embed assignments he wanted with the Marines and the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment. "It was a horrendous situation, with the bad guys blowing up the police stations, beheading people and throwing their heads in the traffic circle. The Marines did a splendid job of restoring stability and security," he said of his experience in Tall Afar. Galloway said he felt much safer with the military than he did in Baghdad.
Retired Maj. Gen. John Batiste, now president of Klein Steel Service in Rochester, N.Y., was in Iraq until February 2005 and never turned down a reporter wanting to be embedded. He said that the stories those assignments generated were mostly "wonderful. You have to take a risk. We owe to the citizens of our country to tell them what is going on. You can't cover it from the Green Zone. I share everything with embeds. What we're after is balance. You have to open up; you're foolish not to. I never regretted taking them into my confidence."
Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has criticized press coverage; in a speech in December, he said: "We've arrived at a strange time in this country where the worst about America and our military seems to so quickly be taken as truth by the press, and reported and spread around the world, often with little context and little scrutiny, let alone correction or accountability after the fact."
Citing polls by the Pew Research Center, Rumsfeld said the discontent was centered among what he described as the country's "elites." Asked about the likelihood of democracy taking hold in Iraq, he said, 63 percent of journalists polled and 71 percent of those in the foreign affairs establishment and in universities and think tanks predicted the effort would fail. By contrast, 64 percent of U.S. military personnel surveyed and 56 percent of the U.S. public were optimistic.
Hoffman's view: "Iraq is a country at war. We're stationed right in the middle of it. That's what we do, observe, describe, report. If we lived in a perfect world, we would see everything. You cover the war you got. The people who complain of the limitations ignore the reality of what courageous reporters do."
One critic of the coverage is John Dowd, a Washington lawyer: "I can't subscribe to your newspaper anymore because you have lost all sense of balance and perspective in your coverage of the war in Iraq and against the terrorists. It is clear to those of us who have our sons and daughters who are in harm's way that you support the terrorists and you are opposed to the efforts of our Marines, all who are sacrificing so that you are free to publish without interference."
Dowd's son Dan is a Marine captain, just back from his second tour as a helicopter pilot in Iraq. Dowd sees his son and other U.S. and Iraqi soldiers "as the most selfless people I've known in my life." I found his letter haunting; it pains me that he would think Post journalists support terrorists.
I have even found criticism of the coverage in the newsroom. Norrelle Combest, a Post copy aide, came by my office to say that The Post should cover more of the kind of support work done by the D.C. National Guard. She's a specialist fourth grade in the Guard and wants to see stories that present "the whole picture . . . something besides combat."
The Post's Jackie Spinner, who returned from Iraq in November after a year reporting there, sympathizes with these readers. "I deeply understand their need to read about a sense of mission." She covered reconstruction during most of her time there. "I wrote great news stories about reconstruction, but now it's much more difficult to get there.
"I don't think people understand how dangerous it is to travel. You're always a kidnapping target. I couldn't roam freely around the country and find these stories now because it's not safe." And she said there is a reluctance among reporters to automatically go to where the military thinks a good story might be: "We don't want to be manipulated."
"But when it's between covering a school opening in Kirkuk and 82 Iraqis getting killed in a bombing, the bombing is going to win. Death and killing are more of a priority." Spinner's book from her year in Iraq, "Tell Them I Didn't Cry: A Young Journalist's Story of Joy, Loss and Survival in Iraq," has just been published to good reviews.
Galloway and Lapan used almost identical words to say they see relations between the military and the media headed the way of Vietnam. Galloway said: "It's not at that point yet, but there are signs of it." Lapan said: "I see things headed in the wrong direction. I don't think we're at the point we were post-Vietnam, but it's headed that way."
A Gallup poll of the public, the military and the media, commissioned for a McCormick Tribune Foundation conference on military-press relations, showed some sobering numbers. Seventy percent of the military believes the media are too negative and only 20 percent of the public believe the coverage is balanced. Seventy-two percent of the military think media access to military officials is sufficient. Only 16 percent of those in the media agreed that the level of access is sufficient.
The Pentagon doesn't depend on the news media to get out the military's story. It maintains numerous Web sites, and Central Command, which oversees Iraq operations, has an increasingly sophisticated digital video and image distribution system to get the military's story out to radio and television stations as well as hometown newspapers. Four hundred video clips and almost 100 radio interviews go out every month.
The Pentagon also is reaching out to bloggers writing about the military. Pro-war blogger Bill Roggio was invited late last year to embed with the Marines, and a story in The Post quoting him brought about 100 critical e-mails generated off Roggio's blog, http://www.billroggio.com/ . Roggio was mentioned in the lead paragraph of a Dec. 26 story by Jonathan Finer and Doug Struck, then doing a rotation in Iraq, on the military's efforts to get its story told favorably. Finer and Struck also wrote about the military's controversial Information Operations program, where Iraqi news media are asked to do stories that focus on efforts to help Iraqis' quality of life and to counter insurgents' attempts to influence coverage. Those stories are often backed up by cash payments.
Roggio was furious that he was mentioned in the same story with journalists paid to write favorable pieces. He said it looked like "I must be part of a nefarious scheme by the military to influence the perceptions on Iraq. All they did was extend an invite that is no different than extending an invite to any reporter. I was invited on my merit. I felt I earned the right to be embedded. I took the risk of leaving my family and job and financing this with donations. Then to see it put in this light, I felt very wronged."
Finer and Hoffman said any close reading of the story would have told readers that Roggio was not paid by the military. That is correct, but a more expansive explanation of the difference between the two programs would have been helpful.
Roggio embedded under the a Pentagon public affairs program that deals with the news media and runs military Web sites. Information Operations, on the other hand, is basically meant to influence coverage. The issue of blurred lines between the two has been raised both by the military and the press.
Lapan arranged Roggio's embed near Fallujah. In Lapan's view: "We have invited bloggers . . . to embed in an effort to tell the story. Bloggers, in my mind, are just another means to communicate accurate, truthful information about what we do. These are not Information Operations any more than embedding a reporter from The Post or the New York Times is."
"The crux of the matter: Public affairs . . . is meant to inform the public. Information Operations is meant to influence our adversary and local populations. PA is primarily directed at American audiences. IO is primarily directed at enemy and supporting foreign publics. By law, IO is not to be directed at the American people. The purpose of IO is to influence; the purpose of PA is to inform," Lapan said.
Finer, in an e-mail, said: "The decision to embed Bill Roggio, a widely read military blogger whose views on the war are well known, came at a time when the military was increasingly expressing frustration with coverage they were receiving in the mainstream media. It also came amid the revelation of efforts to influence coverage in the Iraqi press by paying journalists to publish favorable stories. The story sought only to document what appeared to be a growing effort on the part of the military, and the insurgency, to control the dissemination of information from Iraq. Incidentally, the military, as well as independent analysts, seemed to agree the war over information was picking up on both sides and the Marines I spoke with did not object to the portrayal of Roggio as part of that effort."
After spending time over the past few months talking to journalists and the military in Iraq and at the Pentagon, I kept coming back to two quotes.
One is from Bradley Graham, a longtime Pentagon correspondent for The Post who said at the McCormack Tribune conference: "With the nation embroiled as it is in a difficult conflict and national opinion increasingly divided over what should be done, it's particularly important for the media and military to try to get their relationship right."
The other is from military correspondent Thomas E. Ricks: "Blaming the media is like blaming the rain. It is part of the battlefield environment, and smart officers figure out how to use the environment to their advantage." Ricks is writing a book about the war, which will be published in September. The title is "Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq." |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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These are your positive stories? This is sad, especially if you take into account where the military said they'd be today 3 years ago when 'offensive operations' were declared over and landed on an aircraft carrier for a 'Victory!' photo op.
March 26, 2006
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I'm curious as to when Sundubuman's article was written. The guy focusees a lot on the insurgency. But he says nothing about the miliaitas, who have really taken center stage in the last few months.
From Sundubuman's article...
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I talk every Thursday about the weapons caches and weapons finds. And if you looked over the years 2005, we came across 2,880 weapons caches and since the first of the year almost 900 weapons caches.
Again, this goes to the effectiveness of the insurgents. |
From yesterday's Washington Post:
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BAGHDAD, Iraq -- A string of car bombs rocked Baghdad on Monday, killing 10 people and wounding nearly 80 in an apparent campaign to discredit Iraq's new leadership. At least 15 people were killed in other bombings and shootings.
Police also discovered the bodies of 28 people in the capital and the northern city of Mosul. They included 15 police recruits from Ramadi who were kidnapped Sunday and slain by insurgents, police said.
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Looks like the Americans missed one or two weapon caches. |
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Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Here's the link for the second one. It's current, and it's also the 'official line' of the MNF. We already know they've been caught manufacturing their own good news... why would this be any different?
http://www.mnf-iraq.com/transcripts/060420.htm
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and from an American General NOT angling for a job with a future Democratic administration..... |
Of course he isn't! But I'll bet he's hoping for another star from Rumsfeld.
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here's some things the elite media isn't telling you |
Well no kidding, it's Bill Crawford of National Review Online and the All Things Conservative blog telling us.
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/crawford200603270552.asp
Let's check his blog and see what he says about Fukuyama...
Here's a question: why is a police academy in Jordan considered 'good news'?
How many other countries in the world have police academies in foreign countries?
For all of these 'goods news' items, why isn't Bill asking "For the love of god, how did it come to this that 3 years after the invasion we consider all these things 'good news'?"
How many time has Bill been to Iraq? How many iraqis has he interviewed, spoken with? How many soldiers? How many State department workers? How many private contractors?
To take a page from your own book Sundubu "Thank you very much but I'll stick with" George Packer rather than partisan conservative bloggers and official military spokemen:
"I came to believe that those in positions of highest responsibility for Iraq showed a carelessness about human life that amounted to criminal negligence. Swaddled in abstract ideas, convinced of their own righteousness, incapable of self-criticism, indifferent to accountability, they turned a difficult undertaking into a needlessly deadly one. When things went wrong, they found other people to blame. The Iraq War was always winnable; it still is. For this very reason, the recklessness of its authors is all the harder to forgive."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Packer |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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Why is the U.S. government supporting dictators in the first place? Until that stops, is anyone really so stupid as to think it is really interested in spreading freedom and democracy? |
Most of the time the US supported dictators who were no worse than those who were trying to overthrow them.
There is nothing wrong with supporting a dictator who is on your side if there is no liberal democratic alternative and those trying to overthrow him are just as cruel.
The US was morally correct to fight the cold war.
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It does not even respect the rights of its own citizens |
Really the US is one of the most free and tolerant nations in the world.
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The alternative is for the U.S. government to stop its imperialism, wars, and support of terrorism and to start governing according to its constitution. |
That is fine just first make sure the Communists, the Nazis , the Bathists , the Khomeni lovers and the Bin Laden supporters give up their war.
A world where they get what they want would be far , far worse.
They ought to give up their war,
Most of the time over the last 30 years the US policy was morally correct.
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David76
Joined: 15 Jun 2003 Location: U.S.
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:45 am Post subject: |
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Do ya think that he pathological hatred of Bush among those on the left that inhabit the American media might have something to do with it....just a tiny smidgen???? |
What leftists that inhabit the U.S. media? I don't know of any in the mainstream media. Principled right-wingers don't seem to like Bush and his cabal much either, yet you fail to mention them. Seems like you have a political ax to grind.
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History will be the judge. And hopefully (and if you can't agree with the following wish, you are truly twisted in your thinking) Bush et al's decision to depose Saddam & Sons and let the Iraqi people have a shot at freedom and democracy will be seen as the first great event of the 21st century. |
According to you, I am truly twisted in my thinking. You think a war based on lies is a great event? I don't.
Maybe in some ways life is getting better for the Iraqi people, but do you really think that is the intent? The U.S. government supported Saddam, played Iraq and Iran against each other during their war, defeated the Iraqi military in the Gulf War, imposed sanctions on Iraq, invaded Iraq, and now occupies Iraq. In each of these cases, U.S. government actions caused the Iraqi people to suffer. Has there been a major change in U.S. government policy that suggests it is now trying to help common people? Until that happens, I remain suspicious.
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Was the post about numbers after a name directed at me? I don't know why this would be an issue. I don't recall exactly why I used numbers, but maybe because the name "David" was already taken. I don't have any special insight as to why others might have numbers after their screen names. I suppose I am real. |
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David76
Joined: 15 Jun 2003 Location: U.S.
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:27 am Post subject: |
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There is nothing wrong with supporting a dictator who is on your side if there is no liberal democratic alternative and those trying to overthrow him are just as cruel.
The US was morally correct to fight the cold war. |
I disagree with your support of supporting dictators. Maybe you really don't think there is anything wrong with supporting a dictator and getting blood on your hands, but would you want to live under one? If not, you are being inconsistent. Well, alright, I might be tempted to support dictators in the greater Middle East but that is an emotional response and I don't know how I would go about trying to justify such a thing. Besides, there could be "blowback" as it might just increase Islamic extremism. Probably not a good idea.
Was anyone discussing the Cold War?
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Really the US is one of the most free and tolerant nations in the world. |
I think the U.S. is relatively free and tolerant, but your line does nothing to weaken my claim.
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That is fine just first make sure the Communists, the Nazis , the Bathists , the Khomeni lovers and the Bin Laden supporters give up their war. |
Any grassroots movement that threatens U.S. interests is likely to be labeled "Communist" even if it is not. I think such movements are usually desperate attempts at change. Dictators, oligarchies, and business interests usually seem to stand in the way of peaceful change. I think the vast majority of "Communists" would be happy to give up war if they had representative government and if such government would stand up to dictators, oligarchs, and business interests.
How many Nazis, aside from possible supporters in the U.S. government, are currently at war?
The Bathists seem to be at war because their nation is occupied by foreign powers. Actually, aren't said foreign powers working with Bathists now?
Haven't the Khomeni lovers been targeting Israel and not the U.S.? The U.S. has been giving lots of support to Israel. I'm not sure what to think about that, it's pretty tangled.
Supposedly a conventional war is not the best way to go about preventing terrorism. I would like to see more effort put into preventing terrorism, but I don't like the way the U.S. government is going about it. I think the U.S. government is trying to goad more people into terrorism as an excuse to increase its powers.
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Most of the time over the last 30 years the US policy was morally correct. |
I'm not sure what your morals are. On the surface it might seem like the U.S. government was trying to do the the right thing, but there is a history of intervention making things worse and not better for perhaps the majority of people involved. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:17 am Post subject: |
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D76
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I disagree with your support of supporting dictators. Maybe you really don't think there is anything wrong with supporting a dictator and getting blood on your hands, but would you want to live under one? If not, you are being inconsistent. Well, alright, I might be tempted to support dictators in the greater Middle East but that is an emotional response and I don't know how I would go about trying to justify such a thing. Besides, there could be "blowback" as it might just increase Islamic extremism. Probably not a good idea. |
well then what happens when the the other side comes to power with a dictator that is just as bad? The Soviets were supporting the other side during the cold war as part of their stategy against the US.
D76
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Was anyone discussing the Cold War? |
I thought you were.
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Really the US is one of the most free and tolerant nations in the world. |
D76
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I think the U.S. is relatively free and tolerant, but your line does nothing to weaken my claim. |
Well then the US is relatively free and tolerent - that is well pretty good , especially considering that the US is at war with those that are a lot less tolerent.
D76
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Any grassroots movement that threatens U.S. interests is likely to be labeled "Communist" even if it is not. |
sometimes.
However look that the regimes and groups that have been hostile to the US over the past 30 years.
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Behind Algeria, on a score of 110.55, come North Korea, Burma, Indonesia, Libya, Colombia, Syria, Iraq, Yugoslavia and China. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan and Nigeria follow closely. The United Kingdom comes 141st; a good score on a global basis but not so admirable when compared with other rich, industrialised countries - we are seventh out of 23. |
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country with a wretched record of human rights abuse could score a maximum total of 190. Saddam Hussein's Iraq proves the winner of the unmodified list - which measures human rights abuses outside of their economic context - with an unadjusted score of 155.
International sanctions and the legacy of Saddam's two wars against Iraq and the United Nations over Kuwait, which have crippled Iraq, give it a low rating on the UN's human development index. Iraq's new-found impoverishment catapults it down the list, leaving Algeria in poll position. |
http://www.algeria-watch.org/mrv/mrvrap/observe4.htm
D76
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I think such movements are usually desperate attempts at change. Dictators, oligarchies, and business interests usually seem to stand in the way of peaceful change. I think the vast majority of "Communists" would be happy to give up war if they had representative government and if such government would stand up to dictators, oligarchs, and business interests. |
Who knows but the leadership of the communists weren't.
and certainly most of those those that follow Bin Laden or Saddam or Khomeni wouldn't
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How many Nazis, aside from possible supporters in the U.S. government, are currently at war? |
supporters in the US government? actually Nazis worldwide hate the US. If you think otherwise go to a Klan or David Duke website.
Well it seems that the US has all the right enemies.
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The Bathists seem to be at war because their nation is occupied by foreign powers. Actually, aren't said foreign powers working with Bathists now? |
the Bathists , well are at war cause they want to rule Iraq. That is why they reject elections . They have a right to ask for independence but what gives them the right to rule over the Kurds and the Shias (80% of the population) ?
D76
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Haven't the Khomeni lovers been targeting Israel and not the U.S.? The U.S. has been giving lots of support to Israel. I'm not sure what to think about that, it's pretty tangled. |
They have also targeted the US ,
Shipment of high explosives intercepted in Iraq
Most sophisticated of roadside bombs reportedly coming from Iran
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8829929/
9/11 Commission Finds Ties Between al-Qaeda and Iran
Senior U.S. officials have told TIME that the 9/11 Commission's report will cite evidence suggesting that the 9/11 hijackers had previously passed through Iran
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,664967,00.html
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On June 25, 1996, Iran again attacked America at Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, exploding a huge truck bomb that devastated Khobar Towers and murdered 19 U.S. airmen as they rested in their dormitory. These young heroes spent every day risking their lives enforcing the no-fly zone over southern Iraq; that is, protecting Iraqi Shiites from their own murderous tyrant. When I visited this horrific scene soon after the attack, I watched dozens of dedicated FBI agents combing through the wreckage in 120-degree heat, reverently handling the human remains of our brave young men. More than 400 of our Air Force men and women were wounded in this well-planned attack, and I was humbled by their courage and spirit. I later met with the families of our lost Khobar heroes and promised that we would do whatever was necessary to bring these terrorists to American justice. The courage and dignity these wonderful families have consistently exemplified has been one of the most powerful experiences of my 26 years of public service. |
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110003518
Iran responsible for 1983 Marine barracks bombing, judge rules
Friday, May 30, 2003 Posted: 11:14 PM EDT (0314 GMT)
Marines search through the rubble for their missing comrades after the 1983 barracks bombing in Beirut, Lebanon.
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WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Iran is responsible for the 1983 suicide bombing of a U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, that killed 241 American servicemen, a U.S. District Court judge ruled Friday. |
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/05/30/iran.barracks.bombing/
Amir Taheri: Khomeinists hammering new strategy to oust 'Great Satan'
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But at almost exactly the same time, militants from some 40 countries spread across the globe were trekking to Tehran for a 10-day "revolutionary jamboree" in which "a new strategy to confront the American Great Satan" will be hammered out. The event is scheduled to start on February 1 to mark the 25th anniversary of the return to Iran from exile of the late Ayatollah Khomeini, the founder of the "Islamic Revolution".
It is not clear how many militants will attend, but the official media promise a massive turnout to underline the Islamic Republic's position as the "throbbing heart of world resistance to American arrogance."
The guest list reads like a who-is-who of global terror.
In fact, most of the organisations attending the event, labelled "Ten-Days of Dawn", are branded by the US and some European Union members as terrorist outfits. For more than two decades, Tehran has been a magnet for militant groups from many different national and ideological backgrounds.
The Islamic Republic's hospitality cuts across even religious divides. Militant Sunni organisations, including two linked to Al Qaida, Ansar al-Islam (Companions of Islam) and Hizb Islami (The Islamic Party), enjoy Iranian hospitality.
They are joined by Latin American guerrilla outfits, clandestine Irish organisations, Basque and Corsican separatists, and a variety of leftist groups from Spartacists to Trotskyites and Guevarists. Tehran is the only capital where all the Palestinian militant movements have offices and, in some cases, training and financial facilities. |
http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/04/01/28/109235.html
Iran also killed the translators of the book the Satanic Verses in countries as far away as Japan.
Now would you mind explaining that?
So did Iran did attack the the US . Yes or no?
back to it:
D76
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Haven't the Khomeni lovers been targeting Israel and not the U.S.? The U.S. has been giving lots of support to Israel. I'm not sure what to think about that, it's pretty tangled. |
they have also tried to export their revolution. Khomeni was out to conquer the the Persian gulf and the whole mideast.
Any new power in the Persian gulf would give Iran more influence over the US economy. What ought they be allowed to do that?
The US does give a lot of support to Isreal about 3 -4 billion dollars a year alot but it is less than the US spends defending South Korea.
And anyway while the US can not afford to give money to Israel and ought not to - just cause it makes the fascists in Iran angry isn't a reason not to.
D76
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Supposedly a conventional war is not the best way to go about preventing terrorism. I would like to see more effort put into preventing terrorism, but I don't like the way the U.S. government is going about it. I think the U.S. government is trying to goad more people into terrorism as an excuse to increase its powers. |
Goad people into terrorism as a way to increase powers. Well that is your opinion, and (saying it nicely ) I don't agree with it.
As for the rest the US is too target free to keep out Al Qaeda.
and you seem to oppose the patriot act as well.
However mideast govts are police states and they can deal with AQ if they choose to
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Most of the time over the last 30 years the US policy was morally correct. |
D76
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I'm not sure what your morals are. On the surface it might seem like the U.S. government was trying to do the the right thing, but there is a history of intervention making things worse and not better for perhaps the majority of people involved. |
The US was up against the Soviet Union who was out to get the US. Perhaps the US ought to have stayed out of Korea, but you are in Korea aren't you.
That Soviet Union being gone is good for the US. and good for everyone that it oppressed . Seems the US made things not worse - but a lot better. |
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David76
Joined: 15 Jun 2003 Location: U.S.
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:41 am Post subject: |
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well then what happens when the the other side comes to power with a dictator that is just as bad? The Soviets were supporting the other side during the cold war as part of their stategy against the US. |
Why do you assume that the choice is always between two equally bad dictators? Anyway, since you do seem to assume that, why do you want the U.S. government to be involved in atrocities?
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Was anyone discussing the Cold War?
I thought you were. |
You thought wrong.
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supporters in the US government? actually Nazis worldwide hate the US. If you think otherwise go to a Klan or David Duke website. |
You brought up Nazis on one of your tangents, which I took time to address. Now you have gone from Nazis to the Klan for no apparent reason. And I will not go to their websites!
Back to your Nazi tangent: I was thinking along the lines of Project Paperclip, Gehlen, The Manhattan Institute, some of the things described in the book Vaccine A, and the Bush family.
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The Bathists seem to be at war because their nation is occupied by foreign powers. Actually, aren't said foreign powers working with Bathists now?
the Bathists , well are at war cause they want to rule Iraq. That is why they reject elections . They have a right to ask for independence but what gives them the right to rule over the Kurds and the Shias (80% of the population) ? |
You didn't answer my question.
I don't know that Bathists have a right to rule over the Kurds and Shias. Why do you ask?
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They have also targeted the US , |
After the U.S. sent forces to Saudi Arabia and Iraq. And, don't forget, after the U.S. government interfered with Iran's internal affairs. I don't like fundamentalists, but if you mess with someone it is predictable they will not like it and might retaliate.
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Iran also killed the translators of the book the Satanic Verses in countries as far away as Japan.
Now would you mind explaining that? |
It seems to have a lot to do with their fundamentalism. Pretty simple, huh?
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So did Iran did attack the the US . Yes or no? |
Based on the quotes you provided? No. Clearly not. They attacked U.S. forces who had been sent outside the U.S. by their leaders.
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they have also tried to export their revolution. Khomeni was out to conquer the the Persian gulf and the whole mideast. |
Exporting politics? Gosh, isn't that what you keep claiming the former Soviet Union did? That's what the U.S. is still doing!
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Any new power in the Persian gulf would give Iran more influence over the US economy. |
Such as an Iraq dominated by fundamentalists that might be Iran's new best friend?
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What ought they be allowed to do that? |
I don't understand this sentence. "Why" instead of "What" maybe? That's a guess, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth.
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And anyway while the US can not afford to give money to Israel and ought not to - just cause it makes the fascists in Iran angry isn't a reason not to. |
Well written. Nor is it a reason to do so as the first part of your sentence suggests.
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Goad people into terrorism as a way to increase powers. Well that is your opinion, and (saying it nicely ) I don't agree with it. |
Some of the stuff you included about Iran supports the part about goading people into terrorism. And as for that being related to increasing government powers, it's and old trick and very well established -- keep the people afraid and/or (relatively) united against an enemy. Then the people will be less likely to mind if their rights are infringed upon. Some people will even demand it.
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and you seem to oppose the patriot act as well. |
Yes, as I am in favor of having rights and am not a fan of increased government power.
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The US was up against the Soviet Union who was out to get the US. |
The U.S. lied to a very defensive Soviet Union that had paranoid leadership. The Soviet Union was more interested in defending itself.
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Seems the US made things not worse - but a lot better. |
In recent years Uncle Sam's grip on South America has loosened, and the people of several South American nations have elected candidates who seem to be somewhat reformist. You think this is worse than the dictatorships and death squads associated with past U.S. influence?
Do you think if you throw in enough tangents people will forget the topic? You still have not really addressed why the U.S. government should betray its roots: "We wish not to meddle with the internal affairs of any country" and why anyone would ever support a war based on lies.
As things stand, I do not plan to participate in more of your nonsense on this thread. If you expect another response from me you need to more coherent; stop introducing tangents and stick to the topic -- even if it means figuring out what the topic is. It has been kinda fun shredding your "arguments," but enough is enough. Stop trying to waste my time. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Yep, just a rip-roarin' success in Iraq!!
From Andrew Sullivan's blog April 29th...
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They're grim. 100,000 families have so far been forced to flee their homes; U.S. fatalities were sharply up in April; 8,300 civilian Iraqis were murdered by terrorist insurgents in 2005. In terms of civilian deaths, adjusted for population size, Iraq endured something like twenty-five 9/11s last year. Let's put it another way: a territory controlled by U.S. forces accounted for 50 percent of deaths caused by terrorists on the planet last year. If that is a successful military occupation, then I'm not sure what failure would be. |
Wow. Baghdad, Beverly Hills. The similarities are UNCANNY!!
http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/ |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Location: All over the map
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Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:46 am Post subject: |
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