Korean Job Discussion Forums

[laogaiguk]

[kermo]

I've thought about the low minimum wage, but if it were raised, wouldn't companies just do away with hundreds of thousands of useless jobs, like the guy who salutes cars as they drive in the gate at my uni, or the kid who bows and points in the parking lot. I haven't studied any economics at all, but how else can a country cope with such an enormous labour pool?

[steroidmaximus]

The rationale I've heard for low wages in Arbeit positions is to discourage kids from working so they'll spend more time studying. Of course, this doesn't address the socially problematic situations where young adults need money and can't earn it since a decent wage is hard to find. Where is that thread where the university students kidnapped someone to earn their tuition?

[Universalis]

[cdninkorea]

[I_Am_Wrong]

I would say that, in addition, higher wages for younger workers and women would lead to a greater degree of independence for these two groups. Greater independence of youth and women is something that conservative Korea doesn't want to see. There are many people within Korean society that want the economy to continue to grow but don't want the social change that comes with it.

[uberscheisse]

[laogaiguk]

[Moldy Rutabaga]

I don't have a problem with tipping, although I do agree that it's gone too far in places in the west. To me, it's a reward for excellent service. Too many people seem to feel now that it's a part of their wages, and too many businesses think that it's an excuse to pay employees peanuts because they can compensate with gratuitities. I actually prefer the system here where I get somewhat-pleasant people doing their job out of duty instead of artificially-pleasant people bugging me if "everything's OK" every five minutes in order to get a tip, and then abusing me if it's not the scripturally preordained 20%.

Anyway..

[JongnoGuru]

[Yaya]

Minimum Wage, Maximum Folly
by Walter Williams (March 23, 2005)

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4173

Senators Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., and Rick Santorum, R-Pa., both introduced proposals to increase the minimum wage from its current $5.15 an hour. Sen. Kennedy's proposal would have raised the minimum wage to $7.25 in three steps over 26 months, while Sen. Santorum's would have raised it to $6.25 in two steps over 18 months. Two weeks ago, both measures failed passage in the Senate.

Sen. Kennedy said, "I believe that anyone who works 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, should not live in poverty in the richest country in the world," after telling fellow senators that minimum wage workers earn $5,000 below the poverty line for a family of three. Sen. Santorum said, "I feel very comfortable that our proposal keeps the balance between the ability of lower-skilled employees to enter the work force at a wage in which they are compensated for the skills they bring to the job."

The idea that minimum wage legislation is an anti-poverty tool is simply sheer nonsense. Were it an anti-poverty weapon, we might save loads of foreign aid expenditures simply by advising legislators in the world's poorest countries, such as Haiti, Bangladesh and Ethiopia, to legislate higher minimum wages. Even applied to the United States, there's little evidence suggesting that increases in the minimum wage help the poor.

Plus, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, only 2.2 percent of working adults earn the minimum wage.

The crucial question for any policy is not what are its intentions but what are its effects? One of its effects is readily seen by putting yourself in the place of an employer and asking: If I must pay $6.25 or $7.25 an hour to whomever I hire, does it make sense for me to hire a worker whose skills enable him to produce only $4.00 worth of value per hour? Most employers would view doing so as a losing economic proposition.

Thus, one effect of minimum wages is that of discriminating against the employment of low-skilled workers.

For the most part, teenagers dominate the low-skilled worker category. They lack the maturity, skills and experience of adults. Black teenagers not only share those characteristics, but they are additionally burdened by grossly fraudulent education, making them even lower skilled.

Bureau of Labor Statistics unemployment data confirms the economic prediction about minimum wage effects. Currently, the teen unemployment rate is 16 percent for whites and 32 percent for blacks. In 1948, the unemployment rate for black teens (16-17) was lower (9.4 percent) than white teens (10.2 percent). Plus, black teens were more active in the labor force.

How might we explain that? How about arguing that there was less racial discrimination in 1948, or back then black teens were more highly educated than white teens? Of course, such arguments would be nonsense. The fact of the matter is that while there was a minimum wage of 40 cents an hour prior to 1948, it had been essentially repealed by the post-World War II inflation; however, with successive increases in the minimum wage, black teen unemployment rose relative to white teens to where it has become permanently double that of white teens.

If the minimum wage law has these effects, then how does it pass political muster? The current Social Security debate over private accounts gives us a hint. In the political arena, you dump on people who can't dump back on you. Few politicians owe their office to the youth vote. Despite the "concern for the children" malarkey they spout, it's voting age adults to whom politicians are beholden. It turns out that adults benefit from the discriminatory effects of minimum wages, and older adults benefit from Social Security intergenerational transfers.

[Moldy Rutabaga]

It's true that a minimum wage in Cambodia would not effect much. I don't think that this logically means it won't do good in Canada. Minimum wage laws prevent employers from taking advantage of a glut of students looking for work each May and having them bid each other downward. Minimum wage laws are in a sense a sort of safety net against this. They are also good, in a limited sense, for the economy even if they make prices slightly higher. Someone making nearly nothing would not consume or spend at all beyond raw survival-- as Ford decided in raising his wages, if all companies paid more they would stimulate employees to be loyal consumers of their products.

This does not mean, either, the higher the better; there is a point when minimum wages become job-killers. But anyone who says a hamburger-fryer should be paid four dollars an hour "because that's all his job is worth" is making a kind of circular argument. They also, as I noted before, enter a vicious circle, because only the dregs of society will apply for such jobs, justifying the employer's decision when he sees the result that the job is only worth four dollars.

Ken:>

[Mr. Pink]

Me a tightwad?

I just think the whole notion of tipping is stupid.

I agree with the line of thinking "why should I pay someone to do their job?"

So if you are in the service industry, you automatically should get a tip? Doctors are in the service industry. They service craploads of people. Have you ever tipped your doctor? Teachers are in the service industry. Did your parents ever tip your teacher for a job well done?

Just because some service industries decide to cut the pay, does that mean the customer should take up the slack? I mean that $10 meal has the cost of the employee's wage built into it. The cost of the cook, cleaner, waiter, etc. Why should I have to add MORE to the person who actually brought it to me? IMO the cook does way more than the server in respect to the restaurant business.

I hate tipping. If you didn't have to give 10-20% everytime you went out for a meal, you would have more money for more meals out, and the restaurants would make more money from having your patronage. Then they could afford to pay more to the employee, and the customer would be getting more value for their money.

I don't tip back home because I think it is stupid I have to subsidize an employee. In Korea I usually tip taxi drivers as I feel like I am wasting their time for those under 5k won trips...especially the trips where the meter never goes up. A taxi driver doesn't have to take me, a restaurant DOES have to serve me and if the service sucks, I speak to a manager and demand compensation. Service should never be about "that guy looks like a good tipper".

[I_Am_Wrong]

we have a minimum wage....how about a maximum wage?

[uberscheisse]