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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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 Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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They had a TV special on it on the National Geographic channel on the weekend.
For whatever reason, there were two versions: one was dubbed in Korean, and the other was sub-titled in Korean. |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| Don't mean to be a wet blanket, but how does this topic in any way refer to CURRENT EVENTS? |
It's funny you say that Bobster. I was wondering the exact same thing about the two threads (one of them a poll) about eradicating christianity (or christians). Now how are those threads considered current events? I guess everyone was too busy whipping themselves up into a frothy lather of vitriolic hate that no one really noticed or cared about the placement of the threads. |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:11 am Post subject: |
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Okay-- I'll try my best as a believer to address these questions, and I'll try not to sound like a jerk. It's only my 2c.
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| Don't mean to be a wet blanket, but how does this topic in any way refer to CURRENT EVENTS? |
But it is a current event-- the announcement of this lost "gospel" was only a week ago or so, and the repercussions of this news event are continuing.
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| In fact, I never understand it when Christians are anti-Semitic...I mean, why get pissed off that someone killed your Lord if, though his death, you are able to experience the ecstacy of eternal life? |
A good Christian isn't anti-Semitic; it isn't a part of doctrine, but rather the result of centuries of prejudice. But, yes, the gospels do indicate a certain amount of hostility to Jewish leaders for killing Christ out of reasons of pride and hate. Nevertheless, it's the Jewish leaders who do the deed, and the identity of the rabble who yell for Christ's blood isn't given.
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| Here's something to ponder: Does Judas get into heaven because he obeyed God's will, or is he automatically disqualified because he killed himself? Also, if he killed himself shortly after betraying Jesus, when did he have time to write a gospel? |
Interesting question! Not sure. But again, I don't think there's an actual scriptural reference saying suicides can't go to heaven; this is a medieval belief. And yes, how the heck did he have time to write a gospel-- but I don't think people are seriously proposing that Judas wrote it himself.
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| In short, who cares? The christian religion is based on a handful of books voted upon by men 300+ years after the fact. They picked among dozens of books and gospels that never actually made it into the bible. All these gospels were written 100+ years after the events in the life of Jesus |
The Christian religion is based on Christ. The book is a supporting document, and the dating you give isn't true-- theologians estimate there are lost manuscripts of the gospels (called "Q") going back to not long after Christ's life, with the primary gospels likely written within the lifetimes of some witnesses, and Paul's writings not long after Christ.
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| This is why I find the fundies who decry things like the Jesus Seminar (a group of modern biblical scholars who try to determine what things in the bible Jesus actually said and what was later a writer's embellishment) as laughable. The fundies seem to take issue with the voting process. Like the bible just sprang whole from god's big toe and voting is some kind of heresy. And yet, that's precisely how the bible came to be. A couple centuries after the fact, a bunch of men voted on not only what they felt was "authentic" but even whether or not Jesus himself was divine. |
I didn't agree with the Jesus Seminar's conclusions-- to me arguing over which miracles are "genuine" when a miracle by definition is a suspension of natural law is futile. I didn't think the Seminar had no right to exist-- but then, I'm not a fundy. But to say that the selection of scripture was done entirely by Constantine's men with no prior precedents and that it was done through politics or by simple vote is probably a trivialization of the efforts of a great mass of people who braved martyrdom to preserve these texts before Constantine, and those who spent a huge amount of time and prayer attempting to pick out the ridiculous forgeries from what they could best establish as genuine. If we say such people had no evidence, we also have no evidence that they had bad motives-- other than our own cynicism.
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| Publication of the Forbidden Gospel of Judas will unleash controversy among the Christian religious community. |
So far it hasn't. There are already plenty of other apocryphal stories saying that Christ got mad at a kid in the sandbox and turned him into a newt (he got better). We can trot out the objection that "how do we know what's lies and what's truth", but there's other things to consider first:
1. In its own day it was considered a false document.
2. It does not substantially contradict the other four gospels. They state that Judas betrayed Christ and then killed himself out of remorse, but this does not by itself rule out an intentional or arranged betrayal, or Judas changing his mind later and feeling enormous guilt when the implications of his actions became clear.
3. Why would Christ need someone else to betray him? If he wanted to be arrested by the Roman authorities, he didn't have a piano tied to him-- he could walk into Pilate's office by himself in broad daylight.
4. Most importantly, the main four gospels were written sometime around 60-70 AD. Judas' purported gospel dates to after 180 AD. Wait a minute-- that's like me and three other guys writing books about JFK; there's people still alive who were eyewitnesses that we can talk to who have clear memories of the man. And the Judas book is like me writing an eyewitness account of Napoleon-- that's 110-120 years distance apart!
It's an interesting story. But right now I don't buy the idea that the Judas gospel is legit. Authorities are saying the document is authentic-- i.e. it is from the third century. That doesn't make the text authentic.
Ken:> |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
Okay-- I'll try my best as a believer to address these questions, and I'll try not to sound like a jerk. It's only my 2c.
| Quote: |
| Don't mean to be a wet blanket, but how does this topic in any way refer to CURRENT EVENTS? |
But it is a current event-- the announcement of this lost "gospel" was only a week ago or so, and the repercussions of this news event are continuing. |
Thing is started this thread a few months ago; back when it was more like still pre-current events.
Well, at least pre - MAINSTREAM 
Listen to this GREAT 3-part series 
April 18, 2006
P.I.D. Radio 4/18/06: Dr. Craig Evans - Gospel of Judas (Part 1)
We begin our three-part interview with Dr. Craig Evans, a member of the advisory board assembled by the National Geographic Society to analyze the Gospel of Judas.
Tonight, Dr. Evans summarized the history of the codex, which contained two other tractates in addition to the Gospel of Judas, and how it finally came to light.
http://pidradio.com/?p=205
| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
| Quote: |
| In fact, I never understand it when Christians are anti-Semitic...I mean, why get pissed off that someone killed your Lord if, though his death, you are able to experience the ecstacy of eternal life? |
A good Christian isn't anti-Semitic; it isn't a part of doctrine, but rather the result of centuries of prejudice. But, yes, the gospels do indicate a certain amount of hostility to Jewish leaders for killing Christ out of reasons of pride and hate. Nevertheless, it's the Jewish leaders who do the deed, and the identity of the rabble who yell for Christ's blood isn't given. |
Either of two care to define what you mean by this interesting little catch phrase: "Anti" - "semitic".
What's a semite exactly? Wasn't Jesus one? |
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