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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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 Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| You have no idea really. |
All of the things I have stated were facts, were they not? Once again, if you are holding up Indonesia as an example of how Islam is compatible with human rights and liberal democracy, then you really are clutching at straws. Indonesia is about the best the Islamic world can come up with, and that's really rather telling, isn't it? |
I've repeated these things till I am blue in the face. It doesn't seem to work with you. But here we go again. I was in Jakarta during Ramadan 04 when the Islamic Defenders Front showed up at Star Deli, a club in swanky Kemang. I watched as locals, devout Betawi people turned on the ad hoc Islamist mob when they stormed the place. They ran the bastards out of town. I was there earlier that year when the Australian Embassy bomb went off. Two mates of mine working there are only alive because they were delayed that day. I witnessed the outpouring of rage against the attrocity by ordinary people of all stripes. I was there just after the Bali bombings, the first ones and met nothing but similar sentiment. I was there a few months ago when the cartoon controversy was at its peak. Driving through the middle of Bogor with my brother-in-law and an uncle, two fairly devout people, they commented on the peaceful protesters saying they couldn't see what the fuss was about. I've posted about the intercine strife in Ambon and Sulawesi, quoting from Kevin O'Rourke, the long time analyst of that country who believes that the religious overtones of the conflict mask deeper politico-military motives dating back to the Suharto days. I've reported on the growth of institutionalized Islam in Indonesia, noting the origins of the mystical, ecumenical NU founded by Gus Dur whose highest priority was inter-religious tollerance and dialog. I've mentioned the historical waves of orthodoxizing tendency in Indonesian Islam and its contingency upon the economic and political standards of the day.
All for nothing it seems. You sit back and scoffingly dismiss my years of cultural context, study and personal connection, all backed up with what I've personally experienced on the ground there. You continue to offer tabloid reasoning to a situation so vast and complex it boggles the tiny mind of yourself and your only two allies on this board, rapier, a self avowed supporter of eco-terror and dulouz, someone who supports McVeigh. Yet you don't offer a peep of criticism towards them, do you? Just as you were slow to condemn the BNP on this board, you've again shown that you have but one agenda here, to troll and stir up hatred. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| r nothing it seems. You sit back and scoffingly dismiss my years of cultural context, study and personal connection, all backed up with what I've personally experienced on the ground there. |
but...but but but....but but....but but.....
he has blogs....AND newspapers... |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| jaganath69 wrote: |
| your only two allies on this board, rapier, a self avowed supporter of eco-terror and dulouz, someone who supports McVeigh. Yet you don't offer a peep of criticism towards them, do you? Just as you were slow to condemn the BNP on this board, you've again shown that you have but one agenda here, to troll and stir up hatred. |
Damn, that's good. Thanks, Jaga. Glad I was here to see that. |
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cerulean808
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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I have stated that Islam is an essentially intolerant religion that is at odds with human rights, democracy and fundamental freedoms.
Firstly, I never stated that Islam was incompatible with democracy. I stated quite clearly that Islam is 'incompatible with notions of freedom and human rights'.
Let me reiterate - Islam is incompatible with notions of liberal democracy (which includes the protection of minorities, freedom of speech), and freedom and human rights. |
Your not reiterating bigvern, you've making a belated and failed attempt to qualify your way out of your own contradiction. This results in your argument becoming even more fuzzy minded.
Not surprising coming from a neo con in drag trying to pass yourself off as a defender of democracy and human rights. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| neo con in drag trying to pass yourself off as a defender of democracy and human rights. |
That's a good one. But I am a defender of democracy and human rights. Hence my opposition to Islam. |
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