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Who supports the eradication of christianity as a belief?
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Who supports the eradication of Christianity as a belief?
I do
18%
 18%  [ 12 ]
I don't
69%
 69%  [ 46 ]
Maybe, depending on conditions
12%
 12%  [ 8 ]
Maybe, without conditions
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 66

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ddeubel



Joined: 20 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
12When we heard this, we and the people there pleaded with Paul not to go up to Jerusalem. 13Then Paul answered, "Why are you weeping and breaking my heart? I am ready not only to be bound, but also to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus." 14When he would not be dissuaded, we gave up and said, "The Lord's will be done."
Acts 21:12

Paul willfully went to his death in Jerusalem. Why didn't he heed the scripture that you quoted?


Because he was FULL of himself, believing he knew what the lord wanted of him............... If there was any "lord's will" being done, it was payback for his own egotism. Much like anyone preaching and saying they know what "the lord" wants/means. We know nothing, probably only Ecclessiastes said anything close to that in scripture.

DD
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Dude Love



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:57 am    Post subject: solution Reply with quote

-Why eradicate Christianity? Just move to a country with an outstanding quality of life where religion is illegal, such as North Korea.
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fiveeagles



Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ddeubel wrote:
Because he was FULL of himself, believing he knew what the lord wanted of him............... If there was any "lord's will" being done, it was payback for his own egotism. Much like anyone preaching and saying they know what "the lord" wants/means. We know nothing, probably only Ecclessiastes said anything close to that in scripture.

DD


Well this interesting. You do believe that there is truth in the bible?

Why do you think the Ecclessiastes scripture takes precedence over this following scripture?

Jesus said, "My sheep know my voice, and I know them, and they follow me" (John 10:27). He did not simply say, "My sheep follow me." Nor did He stop at, "My sheep know my voice." In other words, Jesus indicated that those who hear also follow.

In regards to Paul,
What about John the Baptist in his beheading?
What about Peter and how he died for the Lord?
How about all the disciples and how they were either killed or sentenced to the island of Patmos.

Or how about the ultimate example where Christ went to His death in Jerusalem.

My question to you is this DD, the scriptures seem to conflict, but in reality is it a paradox? Thus why people either hate it or love it, because either it is the magnificient truth of how to enter into Heaven or it is the masked lie of intolerance.
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ddeubel



Joined: 20 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well this interesting. You do believe that there is truth in the bible?


There is no truth in the bible. It is full of contradiction. In any case, the only truth is evident within ourselves. Nowhere else.

This is why all "teachers" , whatever religion, taught in parable, story, metaphor. Because it allows us to approach the "way" , in our own unique fashion. Each person is different and has a different "truth" . The problem with religion is that it narrows everything down to ONE way, my way or the highway, in many instances.

I believe Ecclessiastes is a very important book because it doesn't chastise, cage or directly tell or divine. It allows for human dignity and inquiry through its puzzling meaning. Not blind obediance. It is art, not preaching. People are not sheep.

I had an interesting discussion with an elderly student today. A teacher in my training course. All the students did a presentation to finish the course. With a mic, they talked infront of the class. His presentation was about why you should control your anger. One of his presentation points was that you should control your anger because it says in the bible, "a man who controls his anger is next to God and better than any brave man" or something along that line.

After the presentation, I asked him about Jesus and the incident with the money changers. He agreed Jesus had got angry but that "he" was different. Higher. So he was allowed to get angry but we aren't . I say ---- jibberish. The bible is inconsistent pulp in most cases and all those who take the words to heart, are wrong. The only use of the bible is to help us with our own destiny, our own truth within. Not to ordain some great "outside' truth....

DD
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Don Gately



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Location: In a basement taking a severe beating

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, if Christianity was gone tomorrow stem-cell research would be federally funded by the US government tomorrow, and that's more than enough reason to support the "eradication" of Christianity.

I'm all for "live and let live" until your pie-in-the-sky starts getting in the way of real people with real problems here on the real Earth.

In a similar vein I would encourage Americans to go here and find the contact information for your congressperson, both senators and, yes, even your President and make clear to them that House Resolution 810 must pass, even if that means overriding a veto from our Zealot-in-Chief.

http://www.parkinson.org/site/pp.asp?c=9dJFJLPwB&b=71117
http://www.michaeljfox.org
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Troll_Bait



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fiveeagles wrote:
Troll_Bait wrote:
And lastly, as The_Urban_Myth pointed out:

"If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.
And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.
"

- Matthew 10:13 & 10: 14 (New King James version)

In other words, leave people be if they don't want to hear it.


So my question to you is, how do you reconcile the truth you gave me with this truth;

12When we heard this, we and the people there pleaded with Paul not to go up to Jerusalem. 13Then Paul answered, "Why are you weeping and breaking my heart? I am ready not only to be bound, but also to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus." 14When he would not be dissuaded, we gave up and said,

"The Lord's will be done."

Acts 21:12


The short answer: Rather easily. Why?

Your quote came from St. Paul.

My quote came from Jesus. Cool

Even when I was a Christian, I really only paid attention to the Gospels.

I prefer to go straight to the source.

St. Paul never met the flesh-and-blood Jesus, or even the resurrected Jesus.

On the way to Damascus, he "met" (in heavy quotation marks) Jesus ("Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?"), but even he admitted that it was some kind of spiritual Jesus.

You'll notice that Paul is mostly silent on any biographical details about Jesus, such as the Sermon on the Mount, the parables, the virgin birth, the empty tomb, etc.

In fact, he more or less admits to not knowing the historical Yeshua of Nazareth very well here:

"And if we have known Christ according to the flesh: but now we know him so no longer"
- 2 Corinthians, 5:16

fiveeagles wrote:
Paul willfully went to his death in Jerusalem. Why didn't he heed the scripture that you quoted?


Just because Paul was willing to (and did) die for his beliefs does not mean that the Bible endorses proselytizing people who have already said, "Thanks, but no thanks."

Here's another quote to illustrate that point:

"But they did not receive Him...And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, 'Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?' But He turned, and rebuked them, and said, 'Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.' And they went to another village."
- Luke 9:53-56 (King James version)

In other words ...

Followers: They refuseth to hearest our words. Shalt we openest a can of rightous whoop-ass?

Jesus: Art thou on crack?

- Luke 9:53-56 (Troll_Bait version)
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Troll Bait:

That Dilbert cartoon in your signature seems to be de-centering every thread you post on. Maybe give some thought to shrinking it, or making it into a link?

Funny cartoon, all the same.
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Troll_Bait



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the Other Hand:

Is it? I haven't noticed any difference on my screen. It doesn't reach all the way to the right of my screen, and all postings look the same to me.

I know that really big avatars throw everything out-of-whack.



Edit: Ahh ... how's that?
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Edit: Ahh ... how's that?


Much better!

Thanks.
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Privateer



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don Gately wrote:
Privateer wrote:
This is probably a majority consensus view but I just don't get it. It works with Buddhism but, if you're a Christian, you have to believe that anyone who refuses to accept Christianity is ultimately going to hell. You can't just go around ignoring that like it's none of your business, any more than you can ignore someone drowning in the river.


I think this analogy only works if the person drowning in the river is screaming "*beep* off! I want to die! Don't rescue me! Do you hear me? Leave me alone! I don't want to be rescued!"

But then it becomes a question of euthanasia.


Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Satori



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fiveeagles wrote:


It goes both ways. Secularism humanism has it's own agenda. Each religion and political tries to force it's agenda on others. The kingdom of God is the only agenda where you get to choose if you want to be apart of it or not.

Not true. Non christians are not generally evangelising types and are happy to leave christians to thier belief. It is christianity that is agressively evangelising. The two are not the same at all.
Quote:

There is a huge difference between evangelical Christians and radical Islamic terrorists. I am not going to blow you up with bombs.

Quite right, you're more likely to shoot me with a rifle for performing safe and legal abortions.
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Xian



Joined: 08 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ddeubel wrote:

I believe Ecclessiastes is a very important book because it doesn't chastise, cage or directly tell or divine. It allows for human dignity and inquiry through its puzzling meaning. Not blind obediance. It is art, not preaching. People are not sheep.
DD


Ecclesiastes above any book in the Bible teaches people to seek God and to fear God and obey Him. On the surface there is far more grace and supernatural themes evident in other books. But Ecclesiastes is an extremely important book in undestanding that nothing in this world will really satisfy us that has a core message that is all about seeking God. The path Soloman took to give his message in Ecclesiastes appears very natural and human, but when he delivers the 'punch line / crux of the message', it is as much about seeking God above material things as any book in the Bible.
People who have studied the Bible will tell you that the core message of Ecclesiastes can be summed up in the final two verres
Ecc 12:13-14 --- 13 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.


Somewhat blunt and to the point, but a truth.
But don't be mistaken, fear of God (not being afraid) is a good thing, but our driving force is the love of God, a message that is not so common in Ecclesiastes as other Biblical books.

Here is a small introductory comment about Ecclesiastes
from http://www.biblepathway.org/cgi-bin/en/en_view.cgi?book=ecc&language=en&ext=

Quote:
Introduction to Ecclesiastes

Solomon listed 27 achievements in his life and ended by saying: Whatsoever my eyes desired I kept not from them, I withheld not my heart from any joy (Ecclesiastes 2:10). Yet, despite all he had experienced, Solomon repeatedly used the expression: All is vanity (1:2). The word vanity means it has no lasting satisfaction or value. Perhaps he found life void of meaning because during his reign he violated all the commands given to kings in the Word of God. He shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt (to purchase horses). . . . Neither shall he multiply wives to himself . . . neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold . . . he shall write him a copy of this Law in a book. . . . he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear (revere) the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this Law and these Statutes to do them (Deuteronomy 17:16-19).

During his 40-year reign, the people were oppressed with excessive taxes and forced labor to support his massive personal building projects.

After living his life in vain, Solomon is led of God to write that a man is a fool if he thinks he can achieve fulfillment in life by amassing material possessions — because he is never satisfied, always wanting more (see Ecclesiastes 5:10-20; 6:1-9). Solomon described himself when he wrote: Better is a poor and a wise child than an old and foolish king, who will no more be admonished (4:13).

The Book of Ecclesiastes points out how impossible it is to find lasting satisfaction apart from reading the Word of God and living in obedience to His will. Everything is indeed futile if Christ is not Lord of our lives.

After a lifetime of searching for satisfaction through wealth, women, and possessions, Solomon eventually recognized that man's true contentment lies only in full obedience to God. He concluded by cautioning others: Remember now your Creator in the days of your youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw near, when you shall say, I have no pleasure in them (12:1).
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fiveeagles



Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good post Xian. What also is important to recognize is that the fullfillment of the law came in Jesus Christ. Though Solomon had more wisdom than any other man in the OT, the NT brought about a great understanding of God's grace.

Quote:
There is no truth in the bible. It is full of contradiction. In any case, the only truth is evident within ourselves. Nowhere else.

This is why all "teachers" , whatever religion, taught in parable, story, metaphor. Because it allows us to approach the "way" , in our own unique fashion. Each person is different and has a different "truth" . The problem with religion is that it narrows everything down to ONE way, my way or the highway, in many instances.


DD, there most definitely is truth. How else would you define gravity or energy? Also, why is my truth of Jesus Christ not true, if truth is found from within? You have just imposed your inner truth upon me. Do you see the double standard?

And this is the reality of all other religions. Believing that they are enlightened but in the end imposing their beliefs upon others.

These so called contradictions of the bible are actually the crucible of the parable. Within these so called contradictions are deeper truths for those who are willing to look deeper. The bible will always lead you to deeper truths which manifest themselves into an outer reality.

Troll Bait, do you know the difference between the logos and the rhema word? You may think your knowledge of scriptures is what brings understanding, but in the end it is vanity.

Only knowing the spirit and where it is leading brings life. Jesus followed the spirit into Jerusalem where he was crucified. Why didn't he listen to his own command and shake off the dust from his own feet? Could there be a deeper truth than that? Like I have said previously, all the apostles minus one and many of the disciples followed the spirit to their own martyrdom.

Troll Bait, for you to understand the scriptures, you have to know the One who created them. The letter of the law kills, but it is the spirit that brings life.

Quote:
12 For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and is able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

13 There is no creature that is hidden from his sight, but all things are naked and laid open before the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Heb 4
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Troll_Bait



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)

PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don Gately wrote:
For me, if Christianity was gone tomorrow stem-cell research would be federally funded by the US government tomorrow, and that's more than enough reason to support the "eradication" of Christianity.

I'm all for "live and let live" until your pie-in-the-sky starts getting in the way of real people with real problems here on the real Earth.

In a similar vein I would encourage Americans to go here and find the contact information for your congressperson, both senators and, yes, even your President and make clear to them that House Resolution 810 must pass, even if that means overriding a veto from our Zealot-in-Chief.

http://www.parkinson.org/site/pp.asp?c=9dJFJLPwB&b=71117
http://www.michaeljfox.org


What's saddest of all is the fact that their opposition to stem-cell research has nothing to do with Judeo-Christian scripture.

They claim that the Bible tells them that life begins at conception.

It does not.

"The life of the flesh is in the blood" (Leviticus 17:11).

According to the Bible, life does not begin at conception, but about 18 days later, when the embryo is infused with blood and the heart begins to beat.

Allowing a four-day leeway, for the sake of safety, the cutoff date for ethical stem cell research (using blood as the criteria) might be ethically set at 14 days.

This happens to be when the embryo develops a "primitive streak."

Eventually, this streak develops into the embryo's brain and central nervous system.

Also, until the 14-day mark, the embryo can spontaneously split into two embryos with identical DNA, and lead to the birth of identical twins.

Fourteen days is also longest interval that an embryo can be maintained in culture.

Regulations in many countries cite 14 days as the limit for scientific research.



The Talmud (ancient rabbinic writings on Jewish law and tradition) regard full human personhood as beginning only at birth.

The Babylonian Talmud Yevamot 69b states that: "the embryo is considered to be mere water until the fortieth day."

Afterwards, it is considered subhuman until it is born.

Look at Exodus 21:22

A man is responsible for causing a woman's miscarriage, which kills the fetus.

If the woman survives, then the perpetrator has to pay a fine to the woman's husband.

If the woman dies, then the perpetrator is also killed.

This indicates that the fetus has value, but does not have the status of a person.
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Troll_Bait



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)

PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The following comes from here.

AbbeFaria wrote:
fiveeagles wrote:
The point being that Christianity and those who have followed, have often made great contributions to this world.


What follows is a rant.

That's not really in question. Atleast as far as I'm concerned. What I, and it seems many others have a problem with is when the evangelicals want to control all aspects of life based on what they believe the bible says. That's why you run in to so much resistance. I don't feel wrong in saying that most of the people in this board don't care one way or another whether you, or anyone wants to worship Christ, Buddha, Allah or your refridgerator, just as long as you keep it to yourself. (Those board members that do are hypocrites. They've no right to demand freedom of worship/nonworship from if you if they can't give it to you also.)The problem is that you/they don't.

Many Christians want to squeeze their agenda into every facet of life. If you want to "spread the good news" fine, hand out your pamphlets, stand at the airports with change boxes and if people are interested, they'll come to you. When the fundis start pushing their way in to government at all levels, and getting laws passed that force change on all the people who don't believe, that's when there's a problem.

Supposedly we have seperation of church and state in the US, but that's a joke going way back before Bush was in office and was finding ways to funnel government money to christian charities. (Highly illegal by the way.) Every sex law on the books is there because of religion. Laws against oral sex, anal sex, homosexual sex, anything other than missionary position for procreation in some places. Sure, it's rarely enforced, but it's only there because of religious zealots who think that people aren't smart enough to lead their own lives. They need to be controlled. And that's not even mentioning porn.

But that's just sex. Alcohol is another big one. No liquor sales on Sunday. No liquor sales after 1am, midnight, 11:30. Any last call at your local bar. All in place because of holier-than-though preachers and church groups. Does the government tell you how late you're allowed to purchase bread? What about a bag of nachos. If they really wanted to screw the pot-heads they'd ban all sackfood sales after 11:30 so the stoners have nothing to eat when they get the munchies.

But do you see where I'm going with this? Why is it that Christians (and by comparisons Muslims and all the others) feel they have the divine right to tell me how exactly I can spend my day. Please let me know fiveeagles, because it's bugging the crap out of me. Don't I have free will to make my own choices and either choose to walk in the light or not? When did the church's will supercede God's will?

If it was up to you all I wouldn't be able to read most of the books I read, watch the tv I watch and listen to the music I want. You've basically turned yourselves into thought police. My aunt, one of the worst kind of fundis, the barely literate ones, actually believes she can walk on water. She stands in her bathtub barefoot in a couple of inches of water and tries to walk across it. She caught my 9 year old cousin watching Harry Potter somehow and beat the crap out of her, claiming that the movie possessed her. It's insane. And while hopefully she's not the norm, the preacher who brainwashed her into thinking she could levitate is. They are the ones who are trying to get their agenda imposed on all 300 million of my fellow citizens.

Why don't your kind understand that a forced conversion is no real conversion at all. If you have to force the non-believers into feigning belief just to avoid trouble, have you really won? If all these people that you've turned in to religious slaves with your legislation and domination, really in their hearts hate you and God and everything that it represents, have you really done Gods work? Do you think that when you die God will say to you "Good work my son. Through your works you have turned millions of hearts against my Word. Those who may have come to me in their own time were instead forced into the pews and forced into a pious life they didn't want and died cursing my name. We've reserved you an honored place at my side."

And while I'm getting a little personal with all the "you" stuff, it's just for the sake of argument. You yourself may not want your church controlling all, but then again, maybe you do. Either way, there are plenty of christians out there who won't be happy and won't rest until they do. That's why you find so much animosity. Most of us here have been effected negatively by religion at some point. Talking to my cousin and have her telling me she'd been possessed by Harry Potter and believing it was a huge one for me, but that's just one of many. Why can't you just leave people to find their own path. It's not like they're going to forget the churches are there.

Just my thoughts.

��S��
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