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cerulean808
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry Gopher, the first quote is from bolesic1, your positions are similar and I lost track when scrolling.
About 25 words into your response and there's the predictable appearance of that purely rhetorical term 'anti-Americanism'. Guess it would have popped up even sooner if it wasn't for my misquote.
bucheon bum
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| what society has "real power" lie elsewhere?? |
So you agree 'real power' lies with the wealthy in the US, or to put it another way the US is more plutocracy than democracy?
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| Sleaze and scandals are human follies, not strictly the monied elite of the US. |
Meaning what? That the historically high level of corruption in US politics does'nt indicate that wealth has taken power away from the citizens? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 7:00 am Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| cerulean808 wrote: |
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| what society has "real power" lie elsewhere?? |
So you agree 'real power' lies with the wealthy in the US, or to put it another way the US is more plutocracy than democracy?
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| Sleaze and scandals are human follies, not strictly the monied elite of the US. |
Meaning what? That the historically high level of corruption in US politics does'nt indicate that wealth has taken power away from the citizens? |
Historically high level of corruption? Not really. I think you're idealizing the US's past.
And if include unions and special interests groups as part of a plutocracy, then sure. If you are strictly refering to big biz and wealthy indiviuals, then no, I don't agree. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:16 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 12:10 am Post subject: ... |
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Yeah, Bucheon, why would you use such angry words?
You must be angry.
Gopher says so.
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| Unfortunately I think Gopher was refering to cerulean808 and not me there in regards to angry words. |
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cerulean808
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher
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| So, to get back to your anger against the "sleaze" and "financial scandals" in the U.S. system (why else would you use such an angry word like "sleaze" if you're not angry?) |
Angry? You better believe it, you should be too. Human c*ckroaches like Ken Lay still crawling around while 1000s lose their jobs and worse their retirement savings probably consigning many of them to grinding poverty in their twilight years. There's an example of the real source of the US malaise, stop beating up on dirt poor used and abused immigrants legal or otherwise.
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| How does this experience compare with being pulled over by a typical American cop? |
What kind of experience you have is probably going to depend on what color you are.
Took a look at your links, if your most compelling examples of immigrant extremism are a 15 yo incident and another not much more than a campus prank in my view, then your on weak ground. In the mass protests involving millions taking place right now how many acts of violence by extremist immigrants can you cite?
Some more interesting stuff about things in California on the site but I'm going to lunch now... |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:17 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 11:20 pm Post subject: ... |
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Bucheon says:
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| Sleaze and scandals are human follies, not strictly the monied elite of the US. |
Cerulean quotes BB, then Gopher busts out the psychoanalysis:
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| So, to get back to your anger against the "sleaze" and "financial scandals" in the U.S. system (why else would you use such an angry word like "sleaze" if you're not angry?) |
I'm referencing the right poster. It's all right there in the thread.
Fine, Cerulean is angry. So is Bucheon.
So is Gopher:
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| What the hell are you talking about? |
  
Oh, and I forgot:
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 5:07 am Post subject: ... |
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Doh! You got me, Goph. 
Sorry, I was wrong.
Fine. BB is not angry.
But you are:
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| What the hell are you talking about? |
Naughty naughty...
And your bitterness towards Latin Americans is...um...bitter.
Were all the corruption to disappear, would wages suddenly equal what's on offer in the US? |
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cerulean808
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Gopher, in your last post
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| They should put their own houses in order. That is the solution. |
and a few posts back
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When are they going to take responsibility for themselves?
Never. Theirs are the politics of pure emotion, at times apparently devoid of reason. |
Your making contradictory statements. They can hardly be expected to 'put their own houses in order' if they're barking mad as you diagnose.
Other problems with your argument:
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| And you seem to be able to easily find fault with the U.S. while ignoring Latin America's chronic and undeniable faults. |
And you seem to be able to easily find fault with Latin America, while ignoring the U.S's chronic and undeniable faults. Well at least until I challenged you.
Now your basically saying 'the U.S. has problems with corruption but not as bad as Latin America'. Fine. But then you fly off on a tangent about Latin American immigrants ( at least the illegal ones ) being extremists - too dangerous to be allowed in the U.S. - using a couple of lame examples.
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| When there is a "Ken Lay" in the U.S., it is a national scandal/news story. All of the details become public, and very quickly. There is a prosecution. Peoples' heads roll, so to speak. |
Far as I'm aware Kenny boy's still at large and will probably stay that way. A few sensational trials for the unlucky few selected as sacrificial offerings to public outrage. Then back to business as usual. Another example, Exxon and the Valdez, made to shell out about $900 million over ten years. Years of legal rangling and dirty tricks, still hasn't coughed up the $8 billion punitive damages including interest in a federal ruling. Exxon's after tax profits since the spill? Around $700 billion. The rich and powerful are laughing all the way to the bank.
Which returns to my assertion that the U.S. is more plutocracy than democracy.
You finger wag at Latin Americans for not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps while simultaneously asserting they can't do it anyway. You ignore the give away clue in your own statement as to a main cause of these problems:
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| That is the fundamental problem: their political economies and social systems have been unstable and broken since the early colonial era |
and instead make a nasty assertion about the supposed inferiority of Latin American culture(s). |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| The Incas were the ones that were still cutting out peoples hearts while they were still alive and eating them when the Spanish arrived, right? |
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