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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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 Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 10:32 am Post subject: |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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okay.
But why don't you post his evidence re: co2.
Personally, i'm not going to argue that the scientific community have been acting above repute. I don't think that global warming IS a clear cut issue and i'm not even altogether convinced that co2 is the sole problem.
However, the evidence put forward by global warming detractors is, to say the LEAST, unconvincing.
But whatever, put up some more. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
here's a letter and response from the man who started the iceagenow website.
I recently received an e-mail from Ruth O�Donnell asking how I explain the
warming in the Arctic Circle . I'd like to answer her questions.
///
"Hydrothermal hot springs on the seafloor
far more abundant than predicted"
*
"the Gakkel Ridge is far mightier than the Alps "
No wonder the ice is melting! No wonder the Arctic is growing warmer!
As far as I�m concerned Ruth, everything that we see happening in the Arctic
is the result of natural forces. The oceans have warmed prior to previous ice
ages, and they�re doing it again. It�s all part of the ice-age cycle, and I think
it is signaling our entry into the next ice age.
Sincerely,
Robert Felix |
May I point put.... it is irrelevant as those ridges have been there, essentially since Gondwonaland and Pangea did their respective shuffles? All this info does is make the models slightly more complex. I mean, they have ALWAYS been there, so how would they only now be responsible for current melt?
Why do people bother with arguing why? It is simple: with or without blame on humans, it is happening. The question is simply this: to what degree and to what benefit do attempt to ameliorate the changes? Do we just take what comes, or does it benefit us to slow it down? And if we are speeding it up, how little time are we leaving ourselves to move a couple billion people around the globe or find a way to protect them? Or do we just go all Darwin and let the chips fall where they may?
It is not longer useful to debate the why's and wherefores except in the sense of problem solving. Debating it is pointless. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 2:57 am Post subject: |
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Most of the arguments against are from people who have never had any sort of ralationship with nature/ the environment. This is the problem of modern man- totally alienated from the natural world.
Thus..they see problems only as political and social.
Only 2,300 years ago people generally knew the land, plants, weather and fauna all around them intimitely. they embraced the seasons, plants and flowers made up their medicine cabinet, and the natural world had huge meaning in the folklore, traditions and language of people. Changes in the natural world were noticeable and affected people directly. Not so now... |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
Only 2,300 years ago people generally knew the land, plants, weather and fauna all around them intimitely. they embraced the seasons, plants and flowers made up their medicine cabinet, and the natural world had huge meaning in the folklore, traditions and language of people. Changes in the natural world were noticeable and affected people directly. Not so now... |
2300 years ago people were lucky to live to the age of 25 and often died from simple conditions like a tooth abscess or a ruptured appendix. You can keep your natural medicine cabinet, I'll take science and modern medicine anyday. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 3:26 am Post subject: |
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2300 years ago people were lucky to live to the age of 25 and often died from simple conditions like a tooth abscess or a ruptured appendix. |
can YOU fix a tooth abscess or a ruptured appendix? |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| jaganath69 wrote: |
| rapier wrote: |
Only 2,300 years ago people generally knew the land, plants, weather and fauna all around them intimitely. they embraced the seasons, plants and flowers made up their medicine cabinet, and the natural world had huge meaning in the folklore, traditions and language of people. Changes in the natural world were noticeable and affected people directly. Not so now... |
2300 years ago people were lucky to live to the age of 25 and often died from simple conditions like a tooth abscess or a ruptured appendix. You can keep your natural medicine cabinet, I'll take science and modern medicine anyday. |
"Modern" medicine is not new, it relies on "discovering" information already known by traditional societies for millenia.
"At least 7,000 medical compounds in the Western pharmacopoeia are derived from plants."
http://www.arbec.com.my/indigenious.htm
"of 119 plant-derived pharmaceutical medicines, about 74 percent are used in modern medicine in ways that correlated directly with their traditional uses as plant medicines by native cultures."
http://www.holistic-online.com/Herbal-Med/hol_herb-intro.htm
Increasing attention is being paid to the folk medicine of indigenous peoples of remote areas of the world in hope of finding new pharmaceuticals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_medicine
I'll always remember looking at my great-grandmothers childhood diary. In it were pages of pressed flowers, all with their medicinal use, symbolic meaning and so on. She said it was common knowledge to young people in her village when she was a girl. They had no Tvs then: people knew about nature. Much of modern medicine is derived from old knowledge. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 7:48 am Post subject: |
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[quote="rapier"]Most of the arguments against are from people who have never had any sort of ralationship with nature/ the environment. This is the problem of modern man- totally alienated from the natural world.
Thus..they see problems only as political and social.
quote]
umm........"arguments against"
against... a mantra that is devoid of true science, but makes a whole lotta people, government ministries, environmental advocates, indignant suburban teenagers.....
quite sure of their need to dictate environmental and economic policies to the 6 billion humans on earth.
a cozy little elitist bunch of anti-capitalist crusaders, gathering under the auspices of the UN Climate Change Chatterbox
http://unfccc.int/2860.php
another bunch of intellectuals who expect the workers of the world to fund their annual (semi-annual?) hand-wringing sessions.
The latest I believe was held in Montreal.
That's YOUR tax dollars paying for the HOT AIR of a bunch of unelected international elite blowhards meeting on nothingness....enjoy.
Last edited by sundubuman on Mon May 08, 2006 7:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: |
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I jest can't help wondering if Rapier's dinosaurs which he proposed might still be lurking about, and which he assures us were living no less than 700 years ago, wouldn't appreciate a little warming. If Rapier's correct about the dinos, then I say "turn up the heat baby!" 'cause I'd sure like to see one. Maybe they'll come out and play.
Jest wondering.  |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Damn, it's probably time to sell the beach house 
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060508/hurricanes_atlantic_060508/20060508?hub=Canada&s_name=
| Quote: |
FREDERICTON -- In what could signal a frightening new fact of life in the age of global warming, Canadian and U.S. forecasters are warning that another major hurricane season is brewing in the Atlantic Ocean.
The 2006 hurricane season officially opens on June 1, and already scientists are telling people living in eastern North America that numerous storms are predicted, with as many as five major hurricanes packing winds of 180 km/h or greater.
"It's kind of comparable to what we were looking at last year at this time," says Bob Robichaud, a meteorologist with the Canadian Hurricane Centre in Dartmouth, N.S.
"Last year we were looking at 12 to 15 storms and this year the forecast is for about 17. No one would go out on a limb and say it is going to be just as bad as last year, but the indications are there that it is still going to be another active season, almost twice as active as normal."
Last year's hurricane season was the most destructive on record.
There were 27 named storms, 15 hurricanes and seven intense hurricanes during the 2005 season. The worst damage was along the U.S. Gulf coast.
Scientists with the Colorado State University hurricane forecast team say the same factors that contributed to last year's violent season are still in play this year.
"The Atlantic Ocean remains anomalously warm, and tropical Pacific sea surface temperatures have continued to cool," says Colorado University forecaster Phil Klotzbach, explaining two of the key triggers for hurricanes.
The Eastern seaboard has been locked in an active storm period for the past decade and while these seasons are normally cyclical, no one knows when, or if, the active period will end.
"Is this global warming? From now on will we see only active hurricane seasons? That's the big question," says Canadian weather guru Dave Phillips of Environment Canada.
While there is no scientific proof that the buildup of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is breeding more hurricanes, Phillips says global warming could be contributing to the unusual power of the big storms, like last year's Katrina.
"We are seeing stronger hurricanes - almost a 100 per cent increase in category fours and fives," he says.
"When they do develop, they're a lot bigger, tougher and have more destructive power. They stay together longer. This is the concern. They seem to have more power. That could have a connection to global warming - the fact the atmosphere has changed and ocean temperatures have warmed."
Forecasters stress that there is no way to know, at this point, how many big storms will make landfall or whether any will be able to pick up enough steam to significantly affect Eastern Canada.
That's what happened in 2003, when hurricane Juan stoked up energy from unusually warm waters off northeastern North America and blasted the Maritimes, causing death and destruction in Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and parts of New Brunswick.
Phillips says that despite this year's grim forecast, a lot can happen to shut down offshore hurricanes and prevent them from causing onshore harm.
"The temperature of the water has to be right, the winds have to be just perfect, the timing has to be just so and the depth of the water has to be just so," Phillips says.
"It's like baking a souffle. A lot of things have to come together and if someone slams the door, it won't rise."
Phillips adds that, curiously, what happens in the Pacific with the La Nina phenomenon can have major impact on the Atlantic hurricane season.
La Nina refers to a pattern of usually cold surface temperatures in the eastern Pacific Ocean. The east-to-west winds of La Nina tend to be more favourable for producing hurricanes in the Atlantic.
While La Nina has been the dominating factor in the Pacific for the past two years, it appears to be easing.
NASA oceanographers say they believe La Nina will not affect Atlantic hurricanes this year.
Whatever happens, people who have experienced the wrath of a major hurricane are taking precautions.
A 2005 Environment Canada survey of about 500 Halifax-area residents, obtained by The Canadian Press through Access to Information, found that a majority of respondents - 53 per cent - now feel vulnerable to hurricanes.
It also found that 71 per cent of respondents would do things differently if another hurricane like Juan is forecast for the area.
Nova Scotia resident Lynn Brooks, who lives near Halifax, was one of thousands of Maritimers who experienced property damage and power outages during Juan.
Brooks says she now keeps extra water in her home, because if the power goes out, her well goes off.
"I think I'm like a lot of people in this region," she says.
"We will never taken another hurricane warning for granted."
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| khyber wrote: |
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2300 years ago people were lucky to live to the age of 25 and often died from simple conditions like a tooth abscess or a ruptured appendix. |
can YOU fix a tooth abscess or a ruptured appendix? |
Yes, by going to the doctor and paying him money. Wonderful thing, capitalism, ain't it? |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Wonderful thing, capitalism, ain't it? |
Oh yes.
The world sure is a peachy place thanks to capitalism! |
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wbkotw
Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 7:07 am Post subject: Once again |
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Had the day off again and what do I find. Rapier, as the hard core bible thumper you present yourself as, how do you explain this empending doom? I'll take no response as another flight you take from any rational explaination as to your obsession with your obsessions. You again strike me as a flawed individual with a firm grasp of the obvious.
WB |
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