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[sundubuman]

Kyoto is pointless, say 60 leading scientists

4 Apr 2006 - In an open letter to Canada 's new Conservative prime minister,
Stephen Harper, more than 60 leading international climate change experts have
asked him to review the global warming policies he inherited from his center-left
predecessor.

"Much of the billions of dollars earmarked for implementation of the protocol in
Canada will be squandered without a proper assessment of recent developments in
climate science," they wrote in the Canadian Financial Post last week.

There is no consensus among climate scientists on the relative importance of the
various causes of global climate change, they wrote. Study of global climate
change is an "emerging science."

"'Climate change is real' is a meaningless phrase used repeatedly by activists to
convince the public that a climate catastrophe is looming and humanity is the cause.
Neither of these fears is justified.

"Global climate changes all the time due to natural causes and the human impact
still remains impossible to distinguish from this natural 'noise'."

The list of brave signatories (below) looks like a list of �Who�s Who� of the
world�s scientists.

Dr. Ian D. Clark, professor, isotope hydrogeology and paleoclimatology,
Dept. of Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa

Dr. Tad Murty, former senior research scientist, Dept. of Fisheries and Oceans,
former director of Australia's National Tidal Facility and professor of earth
sciences, Flinders University, Adelaide; currently adjunct professor,
Departments of Civil Engineering and Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa

Dr. R. Timothy Patterson, professor, Dept. of Earth Sciences (paleoclimatology),
Carleton University , Ottawa

Dr. Fred Michel, director, Institute of Environmental Science and associate
professor, Dept. of Earth Sciences, Carleton University , Ottawa

Dr. Madhav Khandekar, former research scientist, Environment Canada.
Member of editorial board of Climate Research and Natural Hazards

Dr. Paul Copper, FRSC, professor emeritus, Dept. of Earth Sciences,
Laurentian University, Sudbury, Ont.

Dr. Ross McKitrick, associate professor, Dept. of Economics, University of Guelph , Ont.

Dr. Tim Ball, former professor of climatology, University of Winnipeg ; environmental consultant

Dr. Andreas Prokoph, adjunct professor of earth sciences, University of Ottawa ;
consultant in statistics and geology

Mr. David Nowell, M.Sc. (Meteorology), fellow of the Royal Meteorological
Society, Canadian member and past chairman of the NATO Meteorological
Group, Ottawa

Dr. Christopher Essex, professor of applied mathematics and associate director of
the Program in Theoretical Physics, University of Western Ontario, London, Ont.

Dr. Gordon E. Swaters, professor of applied mathematics, Dept. of Mathematical
Sciences, and member, Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Research Group, University
of Alberta

Dr. L. Graham Smith, associate professor, Dept. of Geography, University of Western Ontario, London, Ont.

Dr. G. Cornelis van Kooten, professor and Canada Research Chair in
environmental studies and climate change, Dept. of Economics, University
of Victoria

Dr. Petr Chylek, adjunct professor, Dept. of Physics and Atmospheric Science, Dalhousie University , Halifax

Dr./Cdr. M. R. Morgan, FRMS, climate consultant, former meteorology advisor
to the World Meteorological Organization. Previously research scientist in
climatology at University of Exeter , U.K.

Dr. Keith D. Hage, climate consultant and professor emeritus of Meteorology, University of Alberta

Dr. David E. Wojick, P.Eng., energy consultant, Star Tannery, Va. , and Sioux
Lookout, Ont.

Rob Scagel, M.Sc., forest microclimate specialist, principal consultant,
Pacific Phytometric Consultants, Surrey , B.C.

Dr. Douglas Leahey, meteorologist and air-quality consultant, Calgary

Paavo Siitam, M.Sc., agronomist, chemist, Cobourg, Ont.

Dr. Chris de Freitas, climate scientist, associate professor, The University of Auckland, N.Z.

Dr. Richard S. Lindzen, Alfred P. Sloan professor of meteorology, Dept. of Earth,
Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences, Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Dr. Freeman J. Dyson, emeritus professor of physics, Institute for Advanced Studies, Princeton , N.J.

Mr. George Taylor, Dept. of Meteorology , Oregon State University; Oregon
State climatologist; past president, American Association of State Climatologists

Dr. Ian Plimer, professor of geology, School of Earth and Environmental Sciences,
University of Adelaide; emeritus professor of earth sciences, University of
Melbourne, Australia

Dr. R.M. Carter, professor, Marine Geophysical Laboratory, James Cook University , Townsville , Australia

Mr. William Kininmonth, Australasian Climate Research, former Head National
Climate Centre, Australian Bureau of Meteorology; former Australian delegate to
World Meteorological Organization Commission for Climatology, Scientific and
Technical Review

Dr. Hendrik Tennekes, former director of research, Royal Netherlands
Meteorological Institute Dr. Gerrit J. van der Lingen, geologist/paleoclimatologist,
Climate Change Consultant, Geoscience Research and Investigations, New
Zealand

Dr. Patrick J. Michaels, professor of environmental sciences, University of Virginia

Dr. Nils-Axel Morner, emeritus professor of paleogeophysics & geodynamics, Stockholm University , Stockholm , Sweden

Dr. Gary D. Sharp, Center for Climate/Ocean Resources Study, Salinas , Calif.

Dr. Roy W. Spencer, principal research scientist, Earth System Science Center ,
The University of Alabama, Huntsville

Dr. Al Pekarek, associate professor of geology, Earth and Atmospheric Sciences
Dept., St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, Minn.

Dr. Marcel Leroux, professor emeritus of climatology, University of Lyon , France ;
former director of Laboratory of Climatology, Risks and Environment, CNRS

Dr. Paul Reiter, professor, Institut Pasteur, Unit of Insects and Infectious Diseases,
Paris , France . Expert reviewer, IPCC Working group II, chapter 8 (human health)

Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski, physicist and chairman, Scientific Council of Central
Laboratory for Radiological Protection, Warsaw , Poland

Dr. Sonja Boehmer-Christiansen, reader, Dept. of Geography, University of Hull ,
U.K. ; editor, Energy & Environment

Dr. Hans H.J. Labohm, former advisor to the executive board, Clingendael
Institute (The Netherlands Institute of International Relations) and an economist
who has focused on climate change

Dr. Lee C. Gerhard, senior scientist emeritus, University of Kansas , past director
and state geologist, Kansas Geological Survey

Dr. Asmunn Moene, past head of the Forecasting Centre, Meteorological Institute, Norway

Dr. August H. Auer, past professor of atmospheric science, University of
Wyoming ; previously chief meteorologist, Meteorological Service (MetService)
of New Zealand

Dr. Vincent Gray, expert reviewer for the IPCC and author of The Greenhouse
Delusion: A Critique of 'Climate Change 2001,' Wellington , N.Z.

Dr. Howard Hayden, emeritus professor of physics, University of Connecticut

Dr Benny Peiser, professor of social anthropology, Faculty of Science,
Liverpool John Moores University , U.K.

Dr. Jack Barrett, chemist and spectroscopist, formerly with Imperial College
London, U.K.

Dr. William J.R. Alexander, professor emeritus, Dept. of Civil and Biosystems
Engineering, University of Pretoria , South Africa . Member, United Nations
Scientific and Technical Committee on Natural Disasters, 1994-2000

Dr. S. Fred Singer, professor emeritus of environmental sciences, University of
Virginia ; former director, U.S. Weather Satellite Service

Dr. Harry N.A. Priem, emeritus professor of planetary geology and isotope
geophysics, Utrecht University; former director of the Netherlands Institute for
Isotope Geosciences; past president of the Royal Netherlands Geological &
Mining Society

Dr. Robert H. Essenhigh, E.G. Bailey professor of energy conversion, Dept.
of Mechanical Engineering, The Ohio State University

Dr. Sallie Baliunas, astrophysicist and climate researcher, Boston , Mass.

Douglas Hoyt, senior scientist at Raytheon (retired) and co-author of the book
The Role of the Sun in Climate Change; previously with NCAR, NOAA,
and the World Radiation Center, Davos, Switzerland

Dipl.-Ing. Peter Dietze, independent energy advisor and scientific climate and
carbon modeller, official IPCC reviewer, Bavaria , Germany

Dr. Boris Winterhalter, senior marine researcher (retired), Geological Survey
of Finland, former professor in marine geology, University of Helsinki , Finland

Dr. Wibjorn Karlen, emeritus professor, Dept. of Physical Geography and
Quaternary Geology, Stockholm University , Sweden

Dr. Hugh W. Ellsaesser, physicist/meteorologist, previously with the Lawrence
Livermore National Laboratory, Calif. ; atmospheric consultant.

Dr. Art Robinson, founder, Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine, Cave Junction, Ore.

Dr. Arthur Rorsch, emeritus professor of molecular genetics, Leiden University,
The Netherlands; past board member, Netherlands organization for applied
research (TNO) in environmental, food and public health

Dr. Alister McFarquhar, Downing College , Cambridge , U.K. ; international
economist

Dr. Richard S. Courtney, climate and atmospheric science consultant, IPCC expert reviewer, U.K.

[Bulsajo]

Yeah, big battle in Canada now over the direction of Canada's environmental policy right now. As you have pointed out, there many scientists who decry the bad science in Kyoto (scientists don't like politics, but politics are inevitable if you hope to acheive a multi-national agreement).

On the other hand, there is distrubing news about Canada's complete inability to reduce greenhouse gas emissions as per its Kyoto accord obligations:

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/05/10/canada.kyoto.reut/

[Bulsajo]

Sundubuman, you didn't post a link to the article. I googled it but was unable to come up with it.

Interestingly enough, here's the article I was able to find:

[sundubuman]

cute......


your need to reference the past.


intellecual straitjackets need not be permanent....btw.......

[Bulsajo]

Pull your head out of your arse for once- If you weren't so lazy I wouldn't have had to bring the point up. Unlike you I'm not wedded to one side of the argument- I want to find out wtf is going on with climate change. If climatologists can't agree then I sure as hell don't know who is right, nor do politicians. It's not my fault I went looking for your article and found a rebuttal to it, but there it is, nonetheless.

And your quip about the past... well, are you that stupid, or what?
Both sides of the issue constantly refer to the past, and past data! I realize you're just trying to be snide about my insistance on sources, but talk about a case of foot in mouth!

[sundubuman]

Whose head needs to be pulled out of one's ass?

The media has been endorsing global warming as not just a cause du jour, but A cause of our lives......


clear thinking on the issue requires total distance from mass media........

[Bulsajo]

WTF? Are you on drugs? We're talking about articles on 2 groups of opposing climatology scientists, and now you want to go off on a rant about the media?!? Because I asked for your source? And because, well, the media reported that a group of scientists have put forward a rebuttal letter?!?


Time to put you in the loony file alongwith IGTG and ddeubel.

[sundubuman]

if you were creative in your thinking, you might have tried typing in the 3-letter phrase....Kyoto is Pointless....


which would have resulted in the following

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=%22kyoto+is+pointless%22&sa=N&tab=nw

Kyoto is pointless, say 60 leading scientists
By Philip Sherwell
(Filed: 09/04/2006)

Canada's new Conservative prime minister, Stephen Harper, has been urged by more than 60 leading international climate change experts to review the global warming policies he inherited from his centre-Left predecessor.

In an open letter that includes five British scientists among the signatories, the experts praise his recent commitment to review the controversial Kyoto protocol on reducing emissions harmful to the environment.
Stephen Harper
Stephen Harper has been urged to review his policies

"Much of the billions of dollars earmarked for implementation of the protocol in Canada will be squandered without a proper assessment of recent developments in climate science," they wrote in the Canadian Financial Post last week.

They emphasised that the study of global climate change is, in Mr Harper's own words, an "emerging science" and added: "If, back in the mid 1990s, we knew what we know today about climate, Kyoto would almost certainly not exist, because we would have concluded it was not necessary." Despite claims to the contrary, there is no consensus among climate scientists on the relative importance of the various causes of global climate change, they wrote.

"'Climate change is real' is a meaningless phrase used repeatedly by activists to convince the public that a climate catastrophe is looming and humanity is the cause. Neither of these fears is justified.

"Global climate changes all the time due to natural causes and the human impact still remains impossible to distinguish from this natural 'noise'."

The letter is the latest effort by climate change sceptics to counter claims that there is a consensus that human activity is causing global warming.
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[sundubuman]

and......




your response to leading scientists.........





claiming the whole thing is a bunch of baloney..................





is??????????????????????????

[sundubuman]

global warming is just soooo real and happening and we all just have to do exactly what ???? to mitigate the effects of our selfish actions...???,,,???


I'm sure you have a long list of suggestions/COMMANDS that should be implemented to reduce this whole global warming threat.

Maybe you should appoint yourself our beneficient overlord.......

and save us all from the non-existent calamity you are so worked up over............

[mithridates]

Debate on global warming is silly. We should move away from fossil fuels as quick as possible because 1) it hurts our health and stinks, and 2) it frees us from dependence on countries that we may or may not be able to rely on.

And, if global warming is true, well that's reason #3.

[Bulsajo]

[Bulsajo]

[Bulsajo]

[Gopher]

[deleted]