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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 9:00 am Post subject: CNN Story on Kyoto: Canada Sabotaging the Protocol |
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OSLO, Norway (Reuters) -- Environmentalists on Monday accused Canada of undermining the U.N.'s Kyoto Protocol, saying the president of a meeting on global warming was showing little enthusiasm for new cuts in heat-trapping gases beyond 2012.
"The Canadian government of (Prime Minister) Stephen Harper is trying to sabotage 15 years of international efforts to address climate change," activists in the Climate Action International Network said in a statement.
Canada's new Conservative government has said it cannot reach its goals for cuts under Kyoto, which obliges almost 40 industrialized nations to cut emissions of greenhouse gases mainly from factories, power plants and cars.
Environment Minister Rona Ambrose said on Sunday Canada would take on new commitments to cut emissions, mainly from burning fossil fuels, beyond 2012 only if there were a broad international consensus.
"If it includes all of our international partners, Canada will be at the table," she said, adding that any agreement might be part of Kyoto or outside the pact.
"We are ready to work with the international community on this issue," Ambrose told CTV television in an interview.
Negotiators from 163 nations are meeting in Bonn for talks from May 15 to 26 on ways to extend Kyoto beyond 2012 to help prevent what could be wrenching climate changes such as more heat waves, droughts, floods and rising sea levels.
On Saturday, Canadian newspapers reported that Ottawa had instructed Canadian negotiators saying that: "Canada will not support agreement on language in the work program that commits developed countries to more stringent targets in the future."
Ambrose said that the document had only been a draft. Canada is president of the talks after hosting a last round of U.N. negotiations in Montreal in late 2005.
Kyoto obliges rich nations to cut emissions by at least 5.2 percent below 1990 levels by 2008-12.
The WWF conservation group said Ambrose should either reaffirm commitment to Kyoto or renounce Canada's current presidency of the U.N. talks. Many other Kyoto countries are struggling to reach their goals.
"Japan, Portugal and New Zealand all face challenges but are sill committed to their targets under Kyoto," said Jennifer Morgan, climate policy director of WWF. "Canada should reaffirm its commitment to reach Kyoto goals."
Ambrose has said that Canada's emissions were 35 percent above target and that Canada needs a break as a major energy exporter. Emissions are set to rise further as Alberta's oil deposits are exploited amid high oil prices. President George W. Bush pulled the United States out of Kyoto in 2001, saying that it would cost U.S. jobs and wrongly excluded developed nations from a first round of cuts to 2012.
"If Canada were to pull out it would leave Europe, Japan and New Zealand. It would be challenging to continue moving the negotiations forward with just these countries," Steven Guilbeault of Greenpeace said. |
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/05/22/canada.climate.reut/index.html |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| It's disgusting, Canadians should be embarressed by our new government. Not only have they pulled out of Kyoto but they cancelled all the programs in country to help upgrade peoples homes in order to save energy. Harper and the conservatives are boneheads, but hopefully an election next year will end his reign. |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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They cancelled those home upgrade programs based on the argument that outrageously high energy costs were sufficient motivation for people to upgrade their homes. A further tax break is unnecessay.
The program was expensive and seemed to provide little or no real reduction in pollution.
The Harper government is not determined to destroy the enironment - rather, they are removing the programs which provided the least benefit per dollar spent. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| and let me guess where you are form in Canada ummmmmm Alberta? I can here the Conservative spin machine. The plans before were great because many Canadians can't afford to pay for the reno's because they are paying for higher energy so the plan was working and it was very well recieved by the public. Instead the Conservatives will let the market try and work but that will fail. I'll just wait for the Libs to come back. |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| and let me guess where you are form in Canada ummmmmm Alberta? I can here the Conservative spin machine. The plans before were great because many Canadians can't afford to pay for the reno's because they are paying for higher energy so the plan was working and it was very well recieved by the public. Instead the Conservatives will let the market try and work but that will fail. I'll just wait for the Libs to come back. |
Wrong. Toronto, and I lived in Ottawa for 6 years before I came to Korea. That's right, I'm from Liberal-loving Ontario and I don't usually vote Conservative.
Having said that, I find that a lot of Liberals jump on any cut to any program related to the environment and hysterically assert that the Harper government is out to destroy the future of humanity. However, it seems to me (and I am admittedly no expert) that Harper is basically trying to increase efficiency in the way the government spends money on environmental programs. Even the government of Canada has limited resources, and it is in our interest to make sure the resources that we do have are spent in the most efficient manner possible.
Yes, there were a few people who were able to afford to do environmentally friendly home rennovations because of the tax break. However, per dollar spent, and given the current energy prices, it just wasn't doing enough. Most of the people who could afford to do the home rennovations in the first place were in a very high income bracket and would likely have done them anyways, especially due to the long term energy savings. I'm not saying they all would have, but most would.
The program was "well received by the public"? Well maybe so, but that doesn't mean the program was a good use of envirnmental protection money.
And if you are just going to wait until the Liberals get back into power ..... you are prolly going to be waiting for a long time. I'm not even saying I like this, but it really does look like Harper win a majority if an election is called in the foreseeable future.
Last edited by RachaelRoo on Mon May 22, 2006 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| It's disgusting, Canadians should be embarressed by our new government. |
Some of us are. Some of us hate every minute of Harper--he's like a Bush mini-me. He's everything Canada isn't and shouldn't be. The only thing that's missing is Harper dragging the bible into Canada's foreign policy.
I predict that ultimately Harper's prime ministership will be as disastrous as Bush's presidency--he seems to be on the same road.
Last edited by canuckistan on Mon May 22, 2006 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| See I disagree with that, I'm not jumping all over Harper because of a few cuts, but because I have yet to see a real plan. If he has a good plan thats not Kyoto and not smoke and mirrors ala Australia/S.Korea/the US then I'm all for it. But it seems to me that the only reason he cut it was because the Liberals created it and that is stupid. Also I hear the party say that it wasn't cost effcient but I don't see them showing any evidence of it, just them saying it, sorta like most of the posts on this board. I want real evidence from them. |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| canuckistan wrote: |
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| It's disgusting, Canadians should be embarressed by our new government. |
Some of us are. Some of us hate every minute of Harper--he's like a Bush mini-me. He's everything Canada isn't and shouldn't be.
I predict that ultimately Harper's prime ministership will be as disastrous as Bush's presidency--he seems to be well on his way. |
What are you basing this on?
Last edited by RachaelRoo on Mon May 22, 2006 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| See I disagree with that, I'm not jumping all over Harper because of a few cuts, but because I have yet to see a real plan. If he has a good plan thats not Kyoto and not smoke and mirrors ala Australia/S.Korea/the US then I'm all for it. But it seems to me that the only reason he cut it was because the Liberals created it and that is stupid. Also I hear the party say that it wasn't cost effcient but I don't see them showing any evidence of it, just them saying it, sorta like most of the posts on this board. I want real evidence from them. |
Harper didn't cut all of the Liberal programs, or even most. Just some that were judged to be least effective. |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Also I hear the party say that it wasn't cost effcient |
That's what Bush says about Kyoto. "Too expensive."
Stupid me *slaps head*, I didn't realize it's so much cheaper to wreck the planet's environment instead.
Last edited by canuckistan on Mon May 22, 2006 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| RachaelRoo wrote: |
| canuckistan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It's disgusting, Canadians should be embarressed by our new government. |
Some of us are. Some of us hate every minute of Harper--he's like a Bush mini-me. He's everything Canada isn't and shouldn't be.
I predict that ultimately Harper's prime ministership will be as disastrous as Bush's presidency--he seems to be well on his way. |
What are you basing this on? |
Being Canadian. |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| canuckistan wrote: |
| RachaelRoo wrote: |
| canuckistan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It's disgusting, Canadians should be embarressed by our new government. |
Some of us are. Some of us hate every minute of Harper--he's like a Bush mini-me. He's everything Canada isn't and shouldn't be.
I predict that ultimately Harper's prime ministership will be as disastrous as Bush's presidency--he seems to be well on his way. |
What are you basing this on? |
Being Canadian. |
That's not an argument.
I don't know what his real agenda is, but what Harper's done within the limits of his minority government has been generally agreeable to most Canadians, for the most part. |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| That's not an argument |
Well I guess I'm not here to argue--least of all with a conservative sympathizer.
Last edited by canuckistan on Mon May 22, 2006 7:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| canuckistan wrote: |
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| That's not an argument |
Well I guess I'm not here to argue--least of all with a conservative sympathizer. |
No, I don't mean argue like 'let's fight' - I mean and argument as in a string of facts and conclusions based on a logical interpretation of those facts. All you've given is assertions. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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I'm with Rachel on this one.
The Liberal govt didn't have a hope in hell of meeting Canada's Kyoto commitments, and for the most part they weren't hampered by a minority government (except for the last year and a bit).
And that's a crucial point- I have no idea if the Conservatives are as evil as you two (stan and Hite) are making them out to be, and as long as they are running under a minority govt, I doubt we'll ever really know.
That doesn't mean I'm supporting the Harper govt's stand on the environment- as a matter of fact, I'm kind of confused as to what exactly their stand is, and I suspect that- ultimately, it's probably not one I'll agree with.
But I don't expect to see miracles from a minority government that hasn't had its hands on the reigns of power for 13 years, and also given that they haven't even made it through their first sitting of parliament yet.
However, if the Kyoto protocol goals were unattainable by any Canadian government, then there really is no reason to be partisan towards the govt that is forced to recognize and deal this fact. I'm not so concerned with what the Conservative govt is against, but rather what they are for- I'm waiting to hear what sort of environmental plans they'd like to see implemented in lieu of the Kyoto protocol. |
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