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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| rapier wrote: |
| Abortion wasn't required until the free love 60's rolled in |
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahahhahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What the heck do you think Cider House Rules was about? |
OK OK...I get the picture that abortion has been going on for a looong time.
But just my opinion...a pile of foetuses in a bucket..is not the way it was meant to be. |
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AbbeFaria
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Nor, however, is it considered really normal for the local newspaper to publish entire articles ridiculing the private religious practices of people in the community. |
Go back in his archives a bit, he's got some crazy stuff. I used to subscribe to his column a year or so ago, but I canceled just 'cause he was freaking me out a bit. I still check back from time to time to see what he's up to. He does have a flair for turning a phrase, you've got to give him that.
�S� |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| AbbeFaria wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| What's ironic is that it wasn't uncommon for christians to marry off their daughters when they were 12 or 13 less than a hundred years ago. |
That's really kind of a stupid fact to just lay out there as a sign of the shocking or immoral actions of christians. Life expectancy one hundred or two hundred years ago was in the 30's and 40's. If you were lucky you made it to see your 50th birthday. So by 12 and 13, you were basically the equivalent of someone today being around 22 to 25. Assuming, of course, that you didn't get small pocks, influenza, plauge, die in childbirth or suffer a relatively small injury that would be a minor inconvience but which turned septic due to lack of antibiotics or just overall general medical knowledge. In the Victorian Era if a doctor couldn't diagnose a woman by examining her from the neck up or the waist down, then too bad for her. That's not across the board, of course, but it should give you an idea.
So it's not ironic at all. It was just a fact of life. If a woman wasn't married by twenty, she was an old maid. If you can only expect to live until you're 40, then 13 isn't all that young.
�S� |
It's stupid to think that I was trying to say christians are immoral. I was simply trying to make the point that some people are more conservative than people were 100 years ago. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:03 am Post subject: |
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That article is proof that the non-religous are not simply content to let religious people be themselves, contrary to the opinions of a lot of atheists. The only valid point would be those that infringe on the ability of non-religious people to get abortions or birth control, but the bringing up the purity ball in the beginning shows that the writer is simply offended by people with a different value system than him/her.
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And you can bet that if it were Morrocan Muslims or Korean Confucians holding a similar ceremony, San Francisco liberals would not be ridiculing it in the local arts paper. |
And I would bet double that if it were about such things, Mr Hite would not have bought it to our attention at all. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
And you can bet that if it were Moroccan Muslims or Korean Confucians holding a similar ceremony, San Francisco liberals would not be ridiculing it in the local arts paper. |
you're right. Sadly the article was in the largest circulating paper in Northern California (SF Chronicle), and not just the "local arts paper." |
Well, Muslims and Confucians aren't so powerful and influential that they have a very real possibility of having their morality enshrined as law (or worse a constitutional amendment). Christians are pretty much in control of the government. Could an atheist get elected president? Not in our life times. If you've got a group of people who believe a book without an amending formula takes priority over a constitution, then it behooves "liberals" to examine and even criticize their wonkier practises.
Wouldn't we all want a liberal press within Islam that could level criticism at the dominant religion in that culture? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Well, Muslims and Confucians aren't so powerful and influential that they have a very real possibility of having their morality enshrined as law (or worse a constitutional amendment). Christians are pretty much in control of the government. Could an atheist get elected president? Not in our life times. If you've got a group of people who believe a book without an amending formula takes priority over a constitution, then it behooves "liberals" to examine and even criticize their wonkier practises.
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I would say the problem with the Religious Right is not that their religious practices are "wonky", but that they try to coerce the rest of the population into adotping them. But the article focussed very little, if at all, on the political coercion, and instead just ridiculed the practices themselves.
I would have no problem with an article that criticized the imposition of abstinence education in public schools. But that's not what the SF Gate article was doing. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:09 am Post subject: |
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[quote]
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Wouldn't we all want a liberal press within Islam that could level criticism at the dominant religion in that culture?
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I'd love to see the press in those countries take a critical stand against the religious establishment. But if I picked up a copy of The Tehran Times and saw a male writer calling for increased usage of sex toys by girls, I would suspect that I was reading something other than a serious piece of political commentary. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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Well, Muslims and Confucians aren't so powerful and influential that they have a very real possibility of having their morality enshrined as law (or worse a constitutional amendment). Christians are pretty much in control of the government. Could an atheist get elected president? Not in our life times. If you've got a group of people who believe a book without an amending formula takes priority over a constitution, then it behooves "liberals" to examine and even criticize their wonkier practises.
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I would say the problem with the Religious Right is not that their religious practices are "wonky", but that they try to coerce the rest of the population into adotping them. But the article focussed very little, if at all, on the political coercion, and instead just ridiculed the practices themselves.
I would have no problem with an article that criticized the imposition of abstinence education in public schools. But that's not what the SF Gate article was doing. |
Didn't Ben Franklin mock all that was holy? |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13088669/
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Forget sex? Virginity pledgers lie about past
Teens who promise to wait for marriage more likely to deny sexual history
NEW YORK - Teenagers who take pledges to remain virgins until marriage are likely to deny having taken the pledge if they later become sexually active. Conversely, those who were sexual active before taking the pledge frequency deny their sexual history, according to new study findings.
These findings imply that virginity pledgers often provide unreliable data, making assessment of abstinence-based sex education programs unreliable. In addition, these teens may also underestimate their risk of exposure to sexually transmitted diseases.
"Teenagers do not report their past sexual activity accurately, with virginity pledgers giving more inaccurate reports of their past sexual activity," study author Janet Rosenbaum, of Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts, told Reuters Health.
Consequently, rather than rely on self-reports, "studies of virginity pledges must focus on outcomes where we know we can get good information, such as medical STD tests," she added.
Previous research shows that survey respondents tend to answer questions about sexual activity according to their current beliefs, particularly if their current attitudes conflict with their past behaviors. Survey respondents may also underreport or overreport their health risk behavior.
Rosenbaum evaluated retractions of virginity pledges and reports of sexual histories among a nationally representative sample of seventh- through twelfth-grade students who participated in the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health.
The students were first interviewed in 1995 and followed-up in 1996. The first survey included responses from 79 percent of 20,745 students. The second survey included responses from 88 percent of 14,736 students from the first group.
In the initial survey, about 13 percent of adolescents reported that they had taken a pledge of virginity. Just one year later, however, more than half of this group said they had never taken such a pledge, Rosenbaum reports in the American Journal of Public Health.
In addition, more than 1 in 10 students who reported being sexually active in 1995 said that they were virgins | | | |
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