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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:18 pm Post subject: RCMP Foils Terrorist Group - Without Violating Civil Rights |
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Nicely done. 
The RCMP catches a long pop fly. Focuses on terrorists, not on "terror", religion or ethnicity. And all without imposing draconian new laws and bureaucracies that inconvenience everybody else while letting the terrorists get away.
Very focused and efficient use of police resources, too.
A textbook example of how to do it. 
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Had to move quickly against suspects: RCMP
Jun. 3, 2006. 10:41 PM
MICHELLE SHEPHARD AND ISABEL TEOTONIO
STAFF REPORTERS
The RCMP said Saturday that after investigating the alleged homegrown terrorist cell for months, they had to move quickly Friday night to arrest 12 men and five youths before the group could launch a bomb attack on Canadian soil. At a morning news conference, the RCMP displayed a sample of ammonium nitrate and a crude cell phone detonator they say was seized in the massive police sweep when the 17 were taken into custody.
"It was their intent to use it for a terrorist attack," said RCMP assistant commissioner Mike McDonell. "If I can put this in context for you, the 1995 bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City that killed 168 people was completed with only one tonne of ammonium nitrate." Ammonium nitrate is a popular fertilizer, but when mixed with fuel oil it can create a powerful explosive.
Standing behind McDonell in a strong show of solidarity, were the chiefs of police from Toronto and Durham, York and Peel regions, as well as officials with the Ontario Provincial Police and the Canadian Security Intelligence Service - representing about 400 people involved with the investigation of the group. "This group posed a real and serious threat," said McDonell, speaking near a table with seized evidence such as a 9-mm Luger handgun, military fatigues and two-way radios. "It had the capacity and intent to carry out these acts."
The suspects were allegedly planning to launch attacks in southern Ontario, but officials would not specify targets. Nor would they say if attacks were considered imminent. However, they did say the TTC was not a target. Sources told the Star that the Toronto headquarters of Canada's spy agency on Front St., adjacent to the CN Tower, was on the group's alleged list.
The names of the 12 adult suspects now in custody were made public Saturday, but identities of the youths under the age of 18 cannot be released, according to Canadian laws protecting minors. Of the adults, six are from Mississauga; four from Toronto and two were already incarcerated in Kingston on gun smuggling charges.
The charges laid against the men included participating in or contributing to the activity of a terrorist group, including training and recruitment; providing or making available property for terrorist purposes; and the commission of indictable offences, including firearms and explosives offences for the benefit of or in association with a terrorist group.
Charged are Fahim Ahmad, 21; Jahmaal James, 23; Amin Mohamed Durrani, 19; and Steven Vikash Chand, 25, all of Toronto; Zakaria Amara, 20; Asad Ansari, 21; Shareef Abdelhaleen, 30; Ahmad Mustafa Ghany, 21; Saad Khalid, 19; and Qayyum Abdul Jamal, 43, all of Mississauga; and Mohammed Dirie, 22 and Yasim Abdi Mohamed, 24, who are incarcerated in Kingston.
As officials spoke with reporters, the suspects were being loaded into unmarked vehicles at the Durham Region Police station in Pickering, where they had spent the night. Wearing leg irons and handcuffs, they were taken to a Brampton courtroom in groups of between two and six to appear before a justice of the peace.
Anser Farooq, a lawyer who represents five of the accused, pointed at snipers on the roof of the courthouse and said: "This is ridiculous. They've got soldiers here with guns. This is going to completely change the atmosphere.
"I think (the police) cast their net far too wide," he said, adding his clients are considering suing law enforcement agencies. The father of one accused, Mohammed Abdelhaleen, spoke outside the courthouse after his son's appearance, saying there is "no validation" to any of the charges against any of the suspects.
"I have no idea what this is," said the distraught father. "I'm sure it's going to come to nothing. We're playing a political game here. I hope the judicial system realizes this." With quivering lips, the father said he was in "a very bad place right now. The damage is already done."
Around the same time, Karl Nickner of the Canadian Council on American-Islamic Relations issued a statement that he is confident "the justice system will accord these individuals transparency, due process and the presumption of innocence."
"We stand behind our security forces and the Canadian government in their desire to protect Canada," said the executive director. "As Canadian Muslims, we unequivocally condemn terrorism in all of its forms."
It's still unclear how the group of suspects is connected and police Saturday offered few details of its alleged activities. But sources close to the investigation told the Star that the investigation began in 2004 when CSIS began monitoring fundamentalist Internet sites and their users.
They later began monitoring a group of young men, and the RCMP launched a criminal investigation. Police allege the group later picked targets and plotted attacks. Last winter some members of the group, including the teenagers, went to a field north of the city, where they allegedly trained for an attack and made a video imitating warfare.
Sources said some of the younger members forged letters about a bogus school trip to give to their parents so they could attend. Police said there were no known connections to Al Qaeda or international terrorist organizations, but that the group was homegrown, meaning the suspects were Canadian citizens, or long-time residents and had allegedly become radicalized here.
This type of extremism was blamed for the suicide attacks in London last July which claimed the lives of 52 commuters travelling on the subway and a double-decker bus. "They appear to have become adherents of a violent ideology inspired by Al Qaeda," said Luc Portelance of CSIS, adding there is no direct link to the network.
John Thompson of the Mackenzie Institute said he has told the Star he was not surprised by the arrests, pointing out he has long warned officials about the possibility of homegrown terrorists and what he dubbed the "jihad generation."
"There's been a focus on (recruiting) younger Muslims, especially those who were mostly raised here," said Thompson, who is director of the Toronto-based think tank. Recruiters, or "ideological conditioners," he said, have been actively seeking members in Toronto-area mosques, community centres and schools since 2002.
Officials have not linked the suspects to terror cells abroad, but Portelance was quick to point out the investigation is ongoing. Sources say the cases of two men from Georgia, now in custody in the U.S. facing terrorism charges, are connected to alleged members of the Canadian group. Saturday, officials offered few details about the suspects or how they met, saying only they come from a "variety of backgrounds" and represented a broad strata, including students, the employed and unemployed.
"It is important to know that this operation in no way reflects negatively on any specific community or ethnocultural group in Canada," said Portelance. "Terrorism is a dangerous ideology, and a global phenomenon. ..... Canada is not immune from this ideology."
When asked why Canadians would want to attack targets in Canada, Portelance said: each suspect would likely have a different reason.
"Clearly, they're motivated by some of the things we see around the world," he said.
"They're against the Western influences in Islamic countries and have an adherence to violence to reach a political objective. But as far as the specific motivators, I think they probably change from individual to individual."
Speaking in Ottawa at an enrolment ceremony for 225 new Canadian military recruits, Prime Minister Stephen Harper offered his views. "As at other times in our history, we are a target because of who we are and how we live, our society, our diversity and our values - values such as freedom, democracy and the rule of law - the values that make Canada great, values that Canadians cherish."
With files from Jessica Leeder, Harold Levy and Tonda MacCharles |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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I have to admit though, if they've bagged all the terrorists and the ammonium nitrate, they could probably tone down the macho posturing a bit. 
Mission accomplished. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| You don't remember the Colombian drug dealers that were arrest in New Brunswick as they were crossing in from Maine? Their car was loaded with guns and explosives. They were on their way to attack the courthouse where a major cartel membre was about to go on trial. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:33 am Post subject: |
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Really.  No I never heard about it. When was this? |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| Late 80s. '88 or '89, maybe as late as '90. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:33 am Post subject: |
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I would rather the US error on the side of caution.
Besides MOS I would bet you dollars to donuts that the alleged terrorists will claim civil rights violations. We have yet to learn all the details. Canada might have had to do some interesting stuff to get'em.
We will have to wait and see.
Anser Farooq, a lawyer who represents five of the accused, pointed at snipers on the roof of the courthouse and said: "This is ridiculous. They've got soldiers here with guns. This is going to completely change the atmosphere.
"
| Quote: |
I think (the police) cast their net far too wide," he said, adding his clients are considering suing law enforcement agencies. The father of one accused, Mohammed Abdelhaleen, spoke outside the courthouse after his son's appearance, saying there is "no validation" to any of the charges against any of the suspects.
"I have no idea what this is," said the distraught father. "I'm sure it's going to come to nothing. We're playing a political game here. I hope the judicial system realizes this." With quivering lips, the father said he was in "a very bad place right now. The damage is already done." |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 6:19 am Post subject: |
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For the record, this apparently was a "sting" operation. The chemicals were sold and delivered by the police themselves.
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The delivery of three tonnes of ammonium nitrate to a group suspected of plotting terrorist attacks in southern Ontario was part of an undercover police sting operation, the Toronto Star has learned.
The RCMP said yesterday that after investigating the alleged homegrown terrorist cell for months, they had to move quickly Friday night to arrest 12 men and five youths before the group could launch a bomb attack on Canadian soil.
Sources say investigators who had learned of the group's alleged plan to build a bomb were controlling the sale and transport of the massive amount of fertilizer, a key component in creating explosives. Once the deal was done, the RCMP-led anti-terrorism task force moved in for the arrests.
At a news conference yesterday morning, the RCMP displayed a sample of ammonium nitrate and a crude cell phone detonator they say was seized in the massive police sweep when the 17 were taken into custody. However, they made no mention of the police force's involvement in the sale. |
Doubtless the defense lawyers will try to score some points with this.
http://tinyurl.com/q9rnp |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:06 am Post subject: |
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And one thing to consider...
If it was the RCMP operatives who told the alleged terrorists how much ammonium nitrate to order, it kinda makes the claims about it being more ammonium nitrate than was used by Timothy McVeigh sound a lot less sensational. Because these guys would probably have ordered whatever amount the operatives told them was needed. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:23 am Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Manner of Speaking wrote:
The RCMP catches a long pop fly. Focuses on terrorists, not on "terror", religion or ethnicity. And all without imposing draconian new laws and bureaucracies that inconvenience everybody else while letting the terrorists get away...Very focused and efficient use of police resources.
But I would like to know whether Canadian authorities are denying receiving liaison intelligence information from the Americans and the British. If not, then these arrests partly derived from U.S. surveillance practices, including controversial wiretapping and email monitoring operations.
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Plus, I'm not sure how accurate it is to say that the RCMP didn't focus on religion in their investigations. Preumably, they weren't infiltrating Presbyterian groups during their search for terrorists.
The defense strategy: Minimize the role of the adult suspects, and portray the whole thing as just overzealous mounties encouraging a bunch of kids to blow something up.
Last edited by On the other hand on Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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nasigoreng
Joined: 14 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: RCMP Foils Terrorist Group - Without Violating Civil Rig |
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| Quote: |
Nicely done.
The RCMP catches a long pop fly. Focuses on terrorists, not on "terror", religion or ethnicity. And all without imposing draconian new laws and bureaucracies that inconvenience everybody else while letting the terrorists get away.
Very focused and efficient use of police resources, too.
A textbook example of how to do it. |
I don't think it's possible to catch people like this without focusing on the religion of Islam.... which is exactly what the RMCP did:
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It's still unclear how the group of suspects is connected and police Saturday offered few details of its alleged activities. But sources close to the investigation told the Star that the investigation began in 2004 when CSIS began monitoring fundamentalist Internet sites and their users.
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Big Brother at work? I don't really care how they intercepted them. I'm just glad they caught them before they carried out their mission. Inconvenient draconian laws or not.
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... - representing about 400 people involved with the investigation of the group. " |
400 agents? That doesn't sound very efficient.
Anyways, good job Mounties! and now maybe Canada will wake up and realize the scope of Islamofacism. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: RCMP Foils Terrorist Group - Without Violating Civil Rig |
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| nasigoreng wrote: |
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Nicely done.
The RCMP catches a long pop fly. Focuses on terrorists, not on "terror", religion or ethnicity. And all without imposing draconian new laws and bureaucracies that inconvenience everybody else while letting the terrorists get away.
Very focused and efficient use of police resources, too.
A textbook example of how to do it. |
I don't think |
Yeah.
If you stop right there, you got it.  |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:58 am Post subject: |
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Going by what's posted on CBC, no one seems to have any handle on how exactly this investigation was carried out.
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Police aren't saying what led them to arrest 17 southern Ontario people in what looks to be Canada's biggest bomb plot.
There have been plenty of leaks from sources, but not many of them have been publicly confirmed at this point.
Some sources say Canadian anti-terrorist forces eavesdropped on extremist internet sites as a massive bomb attack was planned.
Others say farm supply salesmen became suspicious when unlikely looking farmers kept wandering into their store buying up bags of fertilizer. They called police, who organized a massive sting operation that nabbed the suspects with three tonnes of explosive fertilizer and a cellphone hooked to a sophisticated detonator.
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http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/06/04/sleuths-sun.html |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:06 am Post subject: Re: RCMP Foils Terrorist Group - Without Violating Civil Rig |
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| nasigoreng wrote: |
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... - representing about 400 people involved with the investigation of the group. " |
400 agents? That doesn't sound very efficient.
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IMO, a team of 400 to investigate and arrest over 20 people spread out in 3 municipalities sounds very small (I.E. extremely efficient).
Anyway, here's a Globe and Mail article that may be of interest:
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Plot targeted Peace Tower, sources say
Complex operation leading to arrests of alleged terrorists shrouded in secrecy
TIMOTHY APPLEBY AND COLIN FREEZE
From Monday's Globe and Mail
The ammonium nitrate was delivered. The targets were set. After two years of a stealthily assembled counterterrorism web of surveillance, wiretaps and informants, police were ready to swoop down.
The operation was so complex and tightly shrouded that everyone involved � including all the roughly 400 police officers who scooped up the 17 suspected Islamic extremists Friday and Saturday � had to sign the Official Secrets Act, pledging total discretion.
Targets of the alleged plot included political and economic symbols such as the Parliament Buildings and Peace Tower in Ottawa, along with the CN Tower and Toronto Stock Exchange in Toronto.
But long before the sensational details and spectacular arrests came the watching. Visits to certain Internet sites were observed and traced. When visitors met with some of those under surveillance, they were arrested as soon as they returned to the United States. When a group from the Toronto area visited a private recreation area in Ontario's cottage country, police appeared in force the next day and began to pore over the grounds.
And when the watching came to a head, what triggered the rapid wave of RCMP-led Toronto-area arrests was the Mounties' controlled delivery shortly before of three tonnes of ammonium nitrate in 25-kilogram bags � gardening fertilizer that, when mixed with fuel oil, can produce a lethal bomb of the type white supremacist Timothy McVeigh used in 1995 to destroy Oklahoma City's Alfred P. Murrah building, killing 168 people.
Mr. McVeigh's truck bomb, however, was built with just one tonne of ammonium nitrate, a product sold at countless hardware and gardening stores.
The alleged conspirators' plans were evident, assistant RCMP commissioner Mike McDonell said.
�It was their intent to use it for a terrorist attack. ... This group posed a real and serious threat. ... Our investigation and arrests prevented the assembly of explosive devices and attacks being carried out.�
As to targets, police would only say officially that all were in Southern Ontario and that Toronto's transit network of subway trains, buses and street cars is not thought to have been on the list.
The downtown Toronto office of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, in the shadow of the CN Tower, was also believed to be at risk.
It appears the suspects were working to a timeline. Asked if he knew when the group planned to strike, Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair replied that he did, without elaborating.
What's clear is that members of the alleged terrorist ring obtained the three tonnes of ammonium nitrate through what is termed �a controlled delivery,� commonly deployed in big drug busts, whereby police help arrange the delivery of the contraband (or something resembling it) and then arrest the recipients.
Shortly after the three pallets of chemicals arrived at their undisclosed destination, the raids in Toronto and Mississauga began, continuing into the early hours of Saturday and resulting in the arrest of 12 men, as well as five male teenagers whose identity is shielded under the Youth Criminal Justice Act.
No other arrest warrants have been issued, police said.
Converting ammonium nitrate into bombs is nothing new. One year after the Oklahoma City bombing, the Irish Republican Army used it in a terrorist campaign in London and Manchester, as did the architects of the first World Trade Center bombings in 1993 and the 1998 attacks on two U.S. embassies in East Africa.
The huge bomb that killed 202 people at a pair of Bali nightclubs in 2002 was also fashioned from ammonium-nitrate bombs, which produce toxic clouds that burn and blind.
Police would not say where this three-tonne batch came from.
But because of the fertilizer's deadly potential, the Canadian Fertilizer Institute has for several years been working with police and retailers in efforts to spot orders for any unusually large sales.
And that looks to be what happened in this instance.
Asked about the delivery, Mr. McDonell said that as with chemical precursors used to manufacture illegal drugs, �Some of the distributors alert police to suspicious purchases.�
A controlled delivery does not constitute police entrapment unless it can be shown that the target was induced to do something he would not otherwise do.
Fifteen of the 17 accused appeared Saturday in a heavily guarded courtroom in Brampton, where bail applications that prosecutors will likely oppose will be heard Tuesday.
Six of the adults are from Mississauga and four from Toronto.
The other two men are in a Kingston-area penitentiary, serving two-year prison terms for trying to smuggle handguns and ammunition across the Peace Bridge at Fort Erie, Ont. All are Canadian residents, and the majority � including the five youths charged � were born in Canada.
�By our information, I would call them homegrown,� CSIS assistant operations director Luc Portelance told a Saturday media briefing where a 25-kilo bag of ammonium nitrate � not part of the delivery � and a crude cellphone detonator were displayed, along with a computer hard drive, a door riddled with bullet holes, and camping and paramilitary gear that included a 9-mm Luger handgun, a Rambo-style assault knife, camouflage fatigues, flashlights and two-way radios.
�Clearly they are motivated by things we see around the world. They are against the Western influence in Islamic countries.� And while none of the 17 are known to have any formal affiliation with al-Qaeda, Mr. Portelance described them as people who �have become adherents of a violent ideology inspired by al-Qaeda.�
All, including the juveniles, are jointly accused of participating in or contributing to the activity of a terrorist group, including training and recruitment; providing or making available property for terrorist purposes; and the commission of indictable offences, encompassing firearms and explosives offences, for the benefit of or in association with a terrorist group.
Named in the charges are Fahim Ahmad, 21, of Toronto; Zakaria Amara, 20, of Mississauga; Asad Ansari, 21, of Mississauga; Shareef Abdelhaleem, 30, of Mississauga; Qayyum Abdul Jamal, 43, of Mississauga; Mohammed Dirie, 22, of Kingston; Yasim Abdi Mohamed, 24, of Kingston; Jahmaal James, 23, of Toronto; Amin Mohamed Durrani, 19, of Toronto; Steven Vikash Chand (alias Abdul Shakur), 25, of Toronto; Ahmad Mustafa Ghany, 21, of Mississauga; and Saad Khalid, 19, of Mississauga.
Toronto Mayor David Miller said he was apprised of the investigation in January. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:49 am Post subject: ... |
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| 400 agents? That doesn't sound very efficient. |
You appear to know a lot about efficiency.
How many would be efficient? |
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