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saint_moi
Joined: 06 Apr 2003
Location: That little place where I'm meant to be.
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 Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: responsibility |
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Well, I started this thread with my own rant and accordingly I should take the heat for the hate speach that's popping up on it. It seems fitting to run a follow up thread that reads: "Red Devils Rant: Just a rant? Or bigots coming out of the Korean woodwork? That doesn't mean anything I had to say is any more relevant than the replies that followed mine, but there's a clear and definite difference between "I was ticked off by the comentators and fans" and "we'll be seeing documentaries on how Park Ji Sung's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandmother was impregnated by a Mongol and consequently his impurity is to blame for Korea's defeat". If the disrespect shown at the game was a concern, then the fact that some who clearly detest all things Korean and Korea itself and are teaching their children, actually live here and don't go home; makes my skin crawl.
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| im so happy ghana won. korea needs a lesson in humility. Goddamm theyre rude and annoying. |
They? They? Who are they? My wife? Her mom and all her cousins? Need a lesson in humility? That has no correlation whatsoever to obnoxious soccer fans. And if you didn't mean the entire nation of South Korea, did you mean the soccer side is rude and annoying? "They're" rude and annoying? If you loath Koreans so much, what on EARTH might I ask are you doing here?
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| we'll be seeing documentaries on how Park Ji Sung's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandmother was impregnated by a Mongol and consequently his impurity is to blame for Korea's defeat. If Advocaat had selected a more racially pure player from the bench, victory and an enhanced national image would have been assured. Also, the presence of so many "lowly English teachers" at the event created an atmosphere of sexual licentiousness and lack of responsibility which infected our Taegukki warriors and contributed to their un-Korean inability to make the foreigners submit. |
Am I thee only one who thinks this is a broad brush stroke reeking of hate speech that smeers a whole nation and their history? If I said anything of the kind in my original post that invited this sort of bigotry, would the author above please call me out on it.
Every single Korean I know personally, would be so offended by this thread, and I somewhat feel that I spurred it on. Make your bed and lie in it they say, so I'll say this and thereafter ask of a moderator to delete it after some replies are made to this my last post. My final say is this; yeah it's not at all cool that the over zealous cheer leaders were clanging banging their gongs at the game over the Ghana anthem, but the number people who live here scorning this country all the while teaching their young'un's disturbs me a whole lot more. In fact it makes me SICK!@#!@#@!$
This should have been the end of this thread:
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HOWEVER, I have to point out that during the playing of the national anthems, contrary to what was shown on TV, the red devils did not make a huge 'dae han min guk' racket during the Ghana part and kept quiet apart from the silly few but then it was the same when the Korean anthem played where few drunk ghanaians (sp?) were still singing and chanting their own cheers. I really don't think all the stick you guys are giving the Korean fans are completely justified based on what you saw on TV alone.
And before you feel compelled to flame me no, am not a Red devil myself and have no real interest in football. I just thinks it's a bit unfair for Korean to get so much bashing for some misunderstanding that is based on what people saw on telly. |
Last edited by saint_moi on Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:26 am Post subject: |
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the koreans better be careful in german thats all im saying
they start going around and trying to be hooligans! the locals will bury them! and im sure french fans will not take the drums so lightly!
their will be riots on the streets.. hahahha
there will be more riots when the korean players arrive at incheon with their excuses for not winning a game! hahaaha |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: responsibility |
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| They? They? Who are they? My wife? Her mom and all her cousins? Need a lesson in humility? That has no correlation whatsoever to obnoxious soccer fans. And if you didn't mean the entire nation of South Korea, did you mean the soccer side is rude and annoying? "They're" rude and annoying? If you loath Koreans so much, what on EARTH might I ask are you doing here? |
I don't disagree with your basic sentiment, but that is an unfair question. Do you think all the seasonal illegal workers in the US love being there? Or do they go back home just because they love travel? You think most Koreans in the US (and some reports have stated as many as half may be there illegally) are there out of a love for the US? Is that why so many live in Koreatown and never even begin to learn the language or the culture?
I also relate the story of a fellow who went to the US, gained citizenship, worked for the US government, then came back here to stay - after 25 years in the US - and had his citizenship back in 30 days. He had zero allegiance to the US. And he was still working for the US at Yongsan. The smug look on his face as he related how he took advantage of the system is burned into my memory.
Being somewhere often has nothing at all to do with belonging. Survival is a much more compelling reason for most.
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| we'll be seeing documentaries on how Park Ji Sung's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandmother was impregnated by a Mongol and consequently his impurity is to blame for Korea's defeat. If Advocaat had selected a more racially pure player from the bench, victory and an enhanced national image would have been assured. Also, the presence of so many "lowly English teachers" at the event created an atmosphere of sexual licentiousness and lack of responsibility which infected our Taegukki warriors and contributed to their un-Korean inability to make the foreigners submit. |
Am I thee only one who thinks this is a broad brush stroke reeking of hate speech that smeers a whole nation and their history? If I said anything of the kind in my original post that invited this sort of bigotry, would the author above please call me out on it. |
I don't know that it's bigoted towards Korea. It seems to be calling Koreans on their bigotry. Koreans are more bigoted than the typical American. I'm 41, not at all handsome, not in great shape, yet STILL have Korean men steer their girlfriends away from a seat next to me. Or have women obviously, deliberately choose a seat away from me, for example.
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| I don't like this thread at all. Make your bed and lie in it they say, so I'll say this and thereafter ask of a moderator to delete it after some replies are made to this my last post. My final say is this; yeah it's not at all cool that the over zealous cheer leaders were clanging banging their gongs at the game over the Ghana anthem, but the number people who live here scorning this country all the while teaching their young'un's disturbs me a whole lot more. In fact it makes me SICK!@#!@#@!$ |
About those aforementioned Koreans in the US...
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This should have been the end of this thread:
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HOWEVER, I have to point out that during the playing of the national anthems, contrary to what was shown on TV, the red devils did not make a huge 'dae han min guk' racket during the Ghana part and kept quiet apart from the silly few but then it was the same when the Korean anthem played where few drunk ghanaians (sp?) were still singing and chanting their own cheers. I really don't think all the stick you guys are giving the Korean fans are completely justified based on what you saw on TV alone.
And before you feel compelled to flame me no, am not a Red devil myself and have no real interest in football. I just thinks it's a bit unfair for Korean to get so much bashing for some misunderstanding that is based on what people saw on telly. |
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Well.... not really. What the other 48.9 million Koreans saw was Ghana getting dissed. Did you see any commentary on it in the Korean press?
Not thrilled about bigots, but not thrilled about apologists, either. Seems to me you're walking a pretty fine line, OP. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| trigger123 wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| funkywinkerbeans wrote: |
The Korean girl in Cologne had probably watched the commercial that shows all the Europeans in a bar jumping up and down when Korea scores a goal. After watching the commercial upteen times, she heads to Europe to see all the Europeans chanting and roaring for Korea. She arrives in the beautiful city of Cologne and is dumbfounded when the Germans and other tourists don't jump in and start cheering Korea's chant. She can't understand it because the commercial showed that the Europeans love Korean Football. It has to be true she thinks. What's wrong with these Europeans. Don't they understand that in Seoul millions of people cheer for Korea in the streets. Obviously the only solution is to have the World Cup in Korea because Koreans know how to cheer for Korea. Who cares about all the other countries playing in the World Cup.
The lady is unbelievable! |
Not really. She simply doesn't understand the cultural differences. Based on what I know (from traveling in Germany and talking with my German friends), I'd say that Germans don't tend to impose themselves onto others, nor to they see or need the celebratory atmosphere of the world cup as an opportunity to express themselves freely or gain international recognition (they already have it). Besides, the opening ceremony is in one week. |
that's not true!! of course they do! why are they hosting it then? |
The Germans dont what? Impose themelves on others? Perhaps German expansionism which lasted well over 10 centuries and was capped off by World War 2 was what, a blip on the radar? Because as we all know the germans are a peace loving, happy go lucky folk who leave others alone? |
"Don't" and "never did" are two different things. Besides, I was obviously speaking in a social context, not a geopolitical one. |
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Roch
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| trigger123 wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| funkywinkerbeans wrote: |
The Korean girl in Cologne had probably watched the commercial that shows all the Europeans in a bar jumping up and down when Korea scores a goal. After watching the commercial upteen times, she heads to Europe to see all the Europeans chanting and roaring for Korea. She arrives in the beautiful city of Cologne and is dumbfounded when the Germans and other tourists don't jump in and start cheering Korea's chant. She can't understand it because the commercial showed that the Europeans love Korean Football. It has to be true she thinks. What's wrong with these Europeans. Don't they understand that in Seoul millions of people cheer for Korea in the streets. Obviously the only solution is to have the World Cup in Korea because Koreans know how to cheer for Korea. Who cares about all the other countries playing in the World Cup.
The lady is unbelievable! |
Not really. She simply doesn't understand the cultural differences. Based on what I know (from traveling in Germany and talking with my German friends), I'd say that Germans don't tend to impose themselves onto others, nor to they see or need the celebratory atmosphere of the world cup as an opportunity to express themselves freely or gain international recognition (they already have it). Besides, the opening ceremony is in one week. |
that's not true!! of course they do! why are they hosting it then? |
The Germans dont what? Impose themelves on others? Perhaps German expansionism which lasted well over 10 centuries and was capped off by World War 2 was what, a blip on the radar? Because as we all know the germans are a peace loving, happy go lucky folk who leave others alone?:) |
You are an opinionated Canucklehead. That's all, Jiju. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Am I thee only one who thinks this is a broad brush stroke reeking of hate speech |
Hate speech? Do calm down. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Roch wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| trigger123 wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| funkywinkerbeans wrote: |
The Korean girl in Cologne had probably watched the commercial that shows all the Europeans in a bar jumping up and down when Korea scores a goal. After watching the commercial upteen times, she heads to Europe to see all the Europeans chanting and roaring for Korea. She arrives in the beautiful city of Cologne and is dumbfounded when the Germans and other tourists don't jump in and start cheering Korea's chant. She can't understand it because the commercial showed that the Europeans love Korean Football. It has to be true she thinks. What's wrong with these Europeans. Don't they understand that in Seoul millions of people cheer for Korea in the streets. Obviously the only solution is to have the World Cup in Korea because Koreans know how to cheer for Korea. Who cares about all the other countries playing in the World Cup.
The lady is unbelievable! |
Not really. She simply doesn't understand the cultural differences. Based on what I know (from traveling in Germany and talking with my German friends), I'd say that Germans don't tend to impose themselves onto others, nor to they see or need the celebratory atmosphere of the world cup as an opportunity to express themselves freely or gain international recognition (they already have it). Besides, the opening ceremony is in one week. |
that's not true!! of course they do! why are they hosting it then? |
The Germans dont what? Impose themelves on others? Perhaps German expansionism which lasted well over 10 centuries and was capped off by World War 2 was what, a blip on the radar? Because as we all know the germans are a peace loving, happy go lucky folk who leave others alone? |
You are an opinionated Canucklehead. That's all, Jiju. |
perhaps so, but history backs me up on this one. |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: responsibility |
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[quote="saint_moi"]
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| we'll be seeing documentaries on how Park Ji Sung's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandmother was impregnated by a Mongol and consequently his impurity is to blame for Korea's defeat. If Advocaat had selected a more racially pure player from the bench, victory and an enhanced national image would have been assured. Also, the presence of so many "lowly English teachers" at the event created an atmosphere of sexual licentiousness and lack of responsibility which infected our Taegukki warriors and contributed to their un-Korean inability to make the foreigners submit. |
Am I thee only one who thinks this is a broad brush stroke reeking of hate speech that smeers a whole nation and their history? If I said anything of the kind in my original post that invited this sort of bigotry, would the author above please call me out on it.
[quote]
Settle down, sunshine. Forget about lessons in humility, you need to learn a lesson in the art of getting a friggin' joke. |
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hermes.trismegistus
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Korean apologists frighten me.
Criticism A != Endorsement B.
Pointing out ignornace, intolerance, bigotry, misogyny, greed, materialisms, etc of Korea does not entail glorification of our "home" country.
Sports fans do not necessarily rely on nationalism. Anyone who accepts nationalistic tendencies or pride deserves utter scorn. Pride and nationalism encourage segregation and division. Any ideology that tears people apart belongs in the past. Any ideology that surplants cooperation for competition deserves to be scrapped in toto. As competition increases, communication decreases, in a direct inverse relationship.
In the face of the Singularity, we need unifying principles, or else we won't weather the storm. This can't be procrastinated for the next generation, because the foundations are being lain now.
If, by pointing out that Koreans do a large amound of passive complacent acceptance of flawed memes makes me a bigot by your account, so be it.
Every nation has its share of idiots and fools.
Namaste. |
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seoulsucker
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: The Land of the Hesitant Cutoff
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not a huge soccer/football fan, but I have recently gained a sense of appreciation for the level of skill and competition in the global arena. I will watch the World Cup not only to see how well the USA fares, but also to bear witness to the top talents in the world running full throttle against each other to determine the best.
This, I feel, is a major difference between what Koreans want to see when they watch global events like the World Cup or the Olympics. On several occasions in the 2004 Olympics, as soon as the Korean competitors were either out of the running or DQ'd, they would immediately cut to the next "Korean" event.
Yeah, coverage anywhere is going to be a bit biased, but I feel that most other countries at least will continue coverage until it is determined who actually won the event.
My Korean friend's response to this, "But here is Korea."
For all the talk of Korea being a true world player, The Hermit Kingdom still has yet to leave it's shell behind. |
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saint_moi
Joined: 06 Apr 2003
Location: That little place where I'm meant to be.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| Settle down, sunshine. Forget about lessons in humility, you need to learn a lesson in the art of getting a friggin' joke. |
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what on EARTH might I ask are you doing here?.....
I don't disagree with your basic sentiment, but that is an unfair question. Do you think all the seasonal illegal workers in the US love being there? Or do they go back home just because they love travel? |
Well, apparantly it was a foray in the art of friggin' jokes, and so 'what thee hell are you doing in Korea' is not an unfair question in the slightest, as so n so above there is clearly not a refugee seeking political asylum over here in Korea. Whilst recruiting, I've come across so many foul mouthed so n so's teaching English all the while despising life over here AND yet they make no move back home.
That was kinda what I was getting at. |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:56 am Post subject: |
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There once was a man who became a laughing stock,
Because he saw "hate speech" in what was just playful mock.
There was no need to have a cow,
Yet he strutted 'round holier-than-thou.
His great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother must've been rogered by a peacock.
Yours truly,
The foul mouthed, hate speech writing, despiser of all things Korean, bigoted, racist, friggin' joker. |
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Billy Pilgrim
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:01 am Post subject: |
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There was an article online where the head of one major band of supporters apologised profusely for what happened during the anthems.
Read into that what you will, but at least accept that Koreans have the ability to understand when they do something wrong. I swear to God, some posters here are condescending idiots who paint Koreans with one brush, for what ends, I don't know.
Every country has idiots, especially regarding sports. It seems particularly petty to single Korea out for it - example: the All Blacks have the haka, a traditional war dance that they perform before a game of rugby, and it is common for Aussie or English crowds to try and drown it out with noise (Waltzing Matilda, in the AUssies case). What the hell is the difference?
People need to grow up a little around here. |
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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| No one said Korea has a monopoly on bad manners. However, when you do the crime, you gotta do the time so to speak. That in no way says other countries aren't rude and borish. Disrespecting another country's' anthem is not cool. Whether the offending party is Korea, Germany, Canada or whoever. Who needs to grow up here? |
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Billy Pilgrim
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Guri Guy wrote: |
| No one said Korea has a monopoly on bad manners. However, when you do the crime, you gotta do the time so to speak. That in no way says other countries aren't rude and borish. Disrespecting another country's' anthem is not cool. Whether the offending party is Korea, Germany, Canada or whoever. Who needs to grow up here? |
Thing is, they ARE doing the time, and they did acknowledge their mistake. Doesn't seem to matter, though, does it? |
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