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Zarqawi's death
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:53 pm    Post subject: Zarqawi's death Reply with quote

Good Day's Work
Why Zarqawi's death matters.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Thursday, June 8, 2006, at 2:00 PM ET



The death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is excellent news in its own right and even more excellent if, as U.S. sources in Iraq are claiming, it resulted from information that derived from people who were or had been close to him. (And, if that claim is black propaganda, then it is clever black propaganda, which is also excellent news.)

It hasn't taken long for the rain to start falling on this parade. Nick Berg's father, a MoveOn type now running for Congress on the Green Party ticket, has already said that he blames President George Bush for the video-beheading of his own son (but of course) and mourned the passing of Zarqawi as he would the death of any man (but of course, again). The latest Atlantic has a brilliantly timed cover story by Mary Anne Weaver, which tends to the view that Zarqawi was essentially an American creation, but seems to undermine its own prominence by suggesting that, in addition to that, Zarqawi wasn't all that important.

Not so fast. Zarqawi contributed enormously to the wrecking of Iraq's experiment in democratic federalism. He was able to help ensure that the Iraqi people did not have one single day of respite between 35 years of war and fascism, and the last three-and-a-half years of misery and sabotage. He chose his targets with an almost diabolical cunning, destroying the U.N. headquarters in Baghdad (and murdering the heroic envoy S�rgio Vieira de Melo) almost before it could begin operations, and killing the leading Shiite Ayatollah Hakim outside his place of worship in Najaf. His decision to declare a jihad against the Shiite population in general, in a document of which Weaver (on no evidence) doubts the authenticity, has been the key innovation of the insurgency: applying lethal pressure to the most vulnerable aspect of Iraqi society. And it has had the intended effect, by undermining Grand Ayatollah Sistani and helping empower Iranian-backed Shiite death squads.

Not bad for a semiliterate goon and former jailhouse enforcer from a Bedouin clan in Jordan. There are two important questions concerning the terrible influence that he has been able to exert. The first is: How much state and para-state support did he enjoy? The second is: What was the nature of his relationship with Osama Bin Laden and al-Qaida?

For the defeatists and pacifists, these are easy questions to answer. Colin Powell was wrong to identify Zarqawi, in his now-notorious U.N. address, as a link between the Saddam regime and the Bin-Ladenists. The man's power was created only by the coalition's intervention, and his connection to al Qaida was principally opportunistic. On this logic, the original mistake of the United States would have been to invade Afghanistan, thereby forcing Zarqawi to flee his camp outside Herat and repositioning him for a new combat elsewhere. Thus, fighting against al-Qaida is a mistake to begin with: It only encourages them.

I think that (for once) Colin Powell was on to something. I know that Kurdish intelligence had been warning the coalition for some time before the invasion that former Afghanistan combatants were making their way into Iraq, which they saw as the next best chance to take advantage of a state that was both "failed" and "rogue." One might add that Iraq under Saddam was not an easy country to enter or to leave, and that no decision on who was allowed in would be taken by a junior officer. Furthermore, the Zarqawi elements appear to have found it their duty to join with the Ansar al-Islam splinter group in Kurdistan, which for some reason thought it was the highest duty of jihad to murder Saddam Hussein's main enemies. But perhaps I have a suspicious mind.

We happen to know that the Baathist regime was recruiting and training foreign fighters and brigading them with the gruesome "Fedayeen Saddam." (This is incidentally a clue to what the successor regime in Iraq might have looked like as the Saddam-plus-sanctions state imploded and Baathism itself went into eclipse.) That bomb at the U.N. headquarters in Baghdad, for example, was no improvised explosive device. It was a huge charge of military-grade ordnance. Are we to believe that a newly arrived Bedouin Jordanian thug could so swiftly have scraped acquaintance with senior-level former Baathists? (The charges that destroyed the golden dome of the Shiites in Samarra were likewise rigged and set by professional military demolitionists.)

Zarqawi's relations with Bin Laden are a little more tortuous. Mary Anne Weaver shows fairly convincingly that the two men did not get along and were in some sense rivals for the leadership. That's natural enough: Religious fanatics are schismatic by definition. Zarqawi's visceral hatred of the Shiite heresy was unsettling even to some more mainstream Wahhabi types, as was his undue relish in making snuff videos. (How nice to know that these people do have their standards.) However, when Zarqawi sought the franchise to call his group "al-Qaida in Mesopotamia," he was granted it with only a few admonitions.

Most fascinating of all is the suggestion that Zarqawi was all along receiving help from the mullahs in Iran. He certainly seems to have been able to transit their territory (Herat is on the Iranian border with Afghanistan) and to replenish his forces by the same route. If this suggestive connection is proved, as Weaver suggests it will be, then we have the Shiite fundamentalists in Iran directly sponsoring the murderer of their co-religionists in Iraq. This in turn would mean that the Iranian mullahs stood convicted of the most brutish and cynical irresponsibility, in front of their own people, even as they try to distract attention from their covert nuclear ambitions. That would be worth knowing. And it would become rather difficult to argue that Bush had made them do it, though no doubt the attempt will be made.

If we had withdrawn from Iraq already, as the "peace" movement has been demanding, then one of the most revolting criminals of all time would have been able to claim that he forced us to do it. That would have catapulted Iraq into Stone Age collapse and instated a psychopathic killer as the greatest Muslim soldier since Saladin. As it is, the man is ignominiously dead and his dirty connections a lot closer to being fully exposed. This seems like a good day's work to me.

Christopher Hitchens is a columnist for Vanity Fair. His most recent book is Thomas Jefferson: Author of America. His most recent collection of essays is titled Love, Poverty, and War.

Article URL: http://www.slate.com/id/2143305/
Copyright 2006 Washingtonpost.Newsweek Interactive Co. LLC
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well...

The death of Zarqawi will not put an end to the insurgency. In fact, it might aggravate things because he is now a martyr in the eyes of his supporters. But, more importantly, Zarqawi has already succeeded in his mission: making the US lose lot of power and prestige around the world. In any case, his death does little to change the fact that the mission in Iraq will remain a failure until peace is achieved.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hollywoodaction wrote:
Well...

The death of Zarqawi will not put an end to the insurgency. In fact, it might aggravate things because he is now a martyr in the eyes of his supporters. But, more importantly, Zarqawi has already succeeded in his mission: making the US lose lot of power and prestige around the world. In any case, his death does little to change the fact that the mission in Iraq will remain a failure until peace is achieved.


I disagree. It wasn't as if Zarqawi alone was killed. This was a well-timed and well-planned assault of Zarqawi's vast ultra-Jihadist Al Qaeda network. Five of his immediate subordinates were captured (I believe) and Zarqawi and Co. was said to be responsible for as much as 90% of the suicide bombing attacks. This is a humongous victory for the Iraqi government and coalition forces.

The way I see it, Zarqawi was probably betrayed by other Sunni insurgents in exchange for the concessions made by the coalition and the Shia to allow Sunnis to have representation in the government. If that is the case, that means that the Sunni insurgents are showing their willingness to step down attacks as well as their ability to control the insurgency by delivering Zarqawi.

Why would the Sunnis do this? Because probably, and I am speculating big time here, if they actually had, then it would be a good way of convincing the Americans to withdraw. Clearly, America wants to stay as little longer in Iraq as possible, at least as a 150k-strong, active, policing, occupying force (although looking at Japan and Germany one must conclude that there will be a major military presence there for some time to come). Handing them Zarqawi demonstrates their strength, and their commitment to pulling away from the low-intensity civil war and towards co-operation with the other powers in Iraq.
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pussinboots



Joined: 23 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros,
Was that meant to be satire? Or do you really believe the rubbish you're spouting? If so, it is a sad waste of a fine liberal education.

Think about it. The reason the resistance can not be rounded up in one fell swoop is because it is so radically decentralized (as well as spontaneously rising up everywhere).

And are you so naive to think that one guy (who, has lost already what, 400 "top lieutenants"?) has somehow got his hand on the suicide bomber spigot? There is no "Network". There are a million tiny networks- of people working only with those they intimately trust.

Where could you have come up with this idiotic idea of a "Network" with a "Terrorist Mastermind" pulling the strings at the centre, like Dr. No or something? Oh, that's right. You didn't. Rather you absorbed it uncritically from "trusted sources" without ever bothering to reflect on just how trustworthy those sources might be. Because of this you have allowed blatant propaganda to filter into your thinking as gospel truth. Shadows on the cave wall, Kuros.

This media event will no doubt unravel pretty quickly. It's entertaining though to see just what a shameless *beep* Christoper Hitchens has become. Just when you think he couldn't get any lower....
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pussinboots wrote:
Kuros,
Was that meant to be satire? Or do you really believe the rubbish you're spouting? If so, it is a sad waste of a fine liberal education.

Think about it. The reason the resistance can not be rounded up in one fell swoop is because it is so radically decentralized (as well as spontaneously rising up everywhere).

And are you so naive to think that one guy (who, has lost already what, 400 "top lieutenants"?) has somehow got his hand on the suicide bomber spigot? There is no "Network". There are a million tiny networks- of people working only with those they intimately trust.

Where could you have come up with this idiotic idea of a "Network" with a "Terrorist Mastermind" pulling the strings at the centre, like Dr. No or something? Oh, that's right. You didn't. Rather you absorbed it uncritically from "trusted sources" without ever bothering to reflect on just how trustworthy those sources might be. Because of this you have allowed blatant propaganda to filter into your thinking as gospel truth. Shadows on the cave wall, Kuros.

This media event will no doubt unravel pretty quickly. It's entertaining though to see just what a shameless *beep* Christoper Hitchens has become. Just when you think he couldn't get any lower....


You need connections and a supply network for training and to get all those weapons. I'm not theorizing a top-down corporate structure, but, yes, I am *gasp* suggesting that there is some sort of organization, and some sort of connection between at least some of the insurgency.

Besides, I just delineated two types of insurgents, the Sunni mainstream insurgency (who may be more or less connected), and the ultra-hardcore-Jihadist-Al-Qaeda-in-Iraq insurgency. The latter has suffered a major blow. These people aren't invincible, you know.
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
pussinboots wrote:
Kuros,
Was that meant to be satire? Or do you really believe the rubbish you're spouting? If so, it is a sad waste of a fine liberal education.

Think about it. The reason the resistance can not be rounded up in one fell swoop is because it is so radically decentralized (as well as spontaneously rising up everywhere).

And are you so naive to think that one guy (who, has lost already what, 400 "top lieutenants"?) has somehow got his hand on the suicide bomber spigot? There is no "Network". There are a million tiny networks- of people working only with those they intimately trust.

Where could you have come up with this idiotic idea of a "Network" with a "Terrorist Mastermind" pulling the strings at the centre, like Dr. No or something? Oh, that's right. You didn't. Rather you absorbed it uncritically from "trusted sources" without ever bothering to reflect on just how trustworthy those sources might be. Because of this you have allowed blatant propaganda to filter into your thinking as gospel truth. Shadows on the cave wall, Kuros.

This media event will no doubt unravel pretty quickly. It's entertaining though to see just what a shameless *beep* Christoper Hitchens has become. Just when you think he couldn't get any lower....


You need connections and a supply network for training and to get all those weapons. I'm not theorizing a top-down corporate structure, but, yes, I am *gasp* suggesting that there is some sort of organization, and some sort of connection between at least some of the insurgency.

Besides, I just delineated two types of insurgents, the Sunni mainstream insurgency (who may be more or less connected), and the ultra-hardcore-Jihadist-Al-Qaeda-in-Iraq insurgency. The latter has suffered a major blow. These people aren't invincible, you know.


No, they aren't...and they aren't irreplaceable either.
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ddeubel



Joined: 20 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pussinboots,

Wow! Where did you come from??? I second your emotion and you have taken in enough info. in my opinion, to have formed a very thoughtful analysis. Wish that others would see some "light" and not put everything into theories of leaders/big men/organizations/news reportage. Fact is, so much is proximate and happens because of a very simple fact -- Americans there -- Americans out...........

DD

PS. Hitchens should stick to his art schtick.....
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

June 8, 2006

Al-Zarqawi Killed � Again Idea

This guy is harder to kill than James Bond!

Let�s review, and note the dates:
http://derekpgilbert.com/?p=2159
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pussinboots



Joined: 23 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ddeubel wrote:
Pussinboots,

Wow! Where did you come from??? I second your emotion and you have taken in enough info. in my opinion, to have formed a very thoughtful analysis. Wish that others would see some "light" and not put everything into theories of leaders/big men/organizations/news reportage. Fact is, so much is proximate and happens because of a very simple fact -- Americans there -- Americans out...........

DD

PS. Hitchens should stick to his art schtick.....


Actually, I've been here before. I bet joo knows who I am and isn't all that happy to see me back.

Yeah, but now the Americans have fucked things up so well that a blood bath is going to happen anyway. However, at least if they pulled out you wouldn't have air strikes, Special Forces deathsquads, depleted uranium, concentration camps featuring vicious dogs and anal rape, wholesale theft of oil, and all the other pleasant things the Americans have brought.

The bastards managed to start a civil war going after all. What a cluster *beep* this has been. As regards this board, what I can't believe is how twits like joo here can go on knowing that events have proved every single thing his heroes said to be a lie - as if nothing has happened at all. Pathetic.
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pussinboots



Joined: 23 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correction - A blood bath is already underway.
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The timing of his death is a bit too convenient, for obvious reasons. Mainly, it diverts attention away from the investigation on the murder of civilians that is taking place. Do you think they have known where he's been hiding for a long time? If so, why only now? I'm playing the devil's advocate here, but I'd say that delayed a strike against him until one of the terrible crimes commited by US soldiers couldn't be covered up.
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What makes the whole thing suspicious is how the US government is flaunting that they acted on an 'Iraqi tip' and that they were offering a 25 million dollar reward for such information. If it was true, they wouldn't divulge that information. I also wonder if Zarqawi's last words really were unintelligable.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Pentagon officials now say Abu Musab al-Zarqawi briefly survived the U.S. air strike that flattened his hideout north of Baghdad Wednesday night. Before two bombs struck the safe house, American commandos were already on the ground, watching Zarqawi's movements. They sent his exact coordinates to warplanes overhead.

Briefing reporters from Baghdad, Maj. Gen. Bill Caldwell said that Iraqi police reached Zarqawi after the attack. When U.S. forces entered the area, they found that Zarqawi was on a makeshift stretcher, and that was moving. But he died soon afterward.


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5475119
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Leslie Cheswyck



Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hollywoodaction wrote:
I also wonder if Zarqawi's last words really were unintelligable.


Maybe he said "Rosebud."
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leslie Cheswyck wrote:
Hollywoodaction wrote:
I also wonder if Zarqawi's last words really were unintelligable.


Maybe he said "Rosebud."


Laughing

Actually, it probably was some religious or political statement, or maybe even an insult...all of which would never be divulged.
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