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Experts please look over this contract and comment for me.
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TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:00 am Post subject: Re: Experts please look over this contract and comment for m

ttompatz wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

ttompatz wrote:

Knowing the value and cost of a 2 bedroom apartment (never heard of it refered to by a Korean in korea that way) it wouldn't be offered or at least not offered that way.

.

I have a 2 bedroom apt (non-shared). I see nothing impossible in that.

And your contract guarantees you a non-shared 2-bedroom apartment for a single person or just single accommodation?

You were saying it wouldn't be offered.

ttompatz

Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:30 am Post subject: Re: Experts please look over this contract and comment for m

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

ttompatz wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

ttompatz wrote:

Knowing the value and cost of a 2 bedroom apartment (never heard of it refered to by a Korean in korea that way) it wouldn't be offered or at least not offered that way.

.

I have a 2 bedroom apt (non-shared). I see nothing impossible in that.

And your contract guarantees you a non-shared 2-bedroom apartment for a single person or just single accommodation?

You were saying it wouldn't be offered.

WAS it offered as a contractual item or did you just get lucky and get one?

I have never seen a contract that offers a TWO BEDROOM apartment as housing for a single teacher.

Yup... teachers have gotten them. In my 2nd year here I had a 4-bedroom and no roomies for a few months (then got moved to cheaper digs) but the contract only offered SINGLE housing.

jacl

Joined: 31 Oct 2005

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:19 am Post subject:

pgplummer wrote:

Jacl

If you add the contract hours up 4 x 8 is 32. If the director does not want overtime then the 4 x 30 minutes for dinner saves him from overtime. Any additional hours as stated in the contract must be agreed to by me. This meaning if the hours start earlier or go till later can be adjusted to accomodate. As long as I am treated fairly, I have never refused extra hours that were within reason.

So, you're going to squeeze 8 50-minute classes in 7.5 hours? Something just doesn't add up.

Anyway, I was thinking before that you were getting 2 hours of OT/day on top of your 2.3 million. I read back, and you're not.

I just don't understand how your classes would be scheduled. Seems strange. Too strange.

Did you know that OT is calculated daily? However, your situation would change with the Friday off deal.

Seems to me that the only way this would work out would be if your were teaching straight through Monday to Thrusday, 1-8:50 each of those days. Then you would get 2 hrs/wk OT wit the deal that you have.

I just don't understand the "ifs" here. Like if you take 1/2 break everyday then you don't get OT. The schedule should already be set. I don't know.

pgplummer

Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:40 am Post subject:

jacl wrote:

pgplummer wrote:

I fully understand your concerns. The 8 classes are a maximum daily schedule. As I have been told, they do not have 16 classes at the present time per teacher. (Mon & Wed - Tue & Thur) In the event that they do accumulate the maximum amount of classes then a friendly amendment will have to be added to this agreement. In my last contract there was only 5 minutes between classes thus giving the dinner break and 5 minutes or so between each class. I have also worked a contract that had 40-minute classes.

This contract is still in negotiations. It is very close to being complete. I am sure that the director still has additions he would like to add. Also there might be changes he wants on my end as well.

Thanks for the feedback and taking the time to truly think it out. It is a more complicated clause but it has worked for me in the last 2 contracts.

I appreciate your thoughts.

CHEERS

pgplummer

Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:48 am Post subject: Re: Experts please look over this contract and comment for m

ttompatz wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

ttompatz wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

ttompatz wrote:

Knowing the value and cost of a 2 bedroom apartment (never heard of it refered to by a Korean in korea that way) it wouldn't be offered or at least not offered that way.

.

I have a 2 bedroom apt (non-shared). I see nothing impossible in that.

And your contract guarantees you a non-shared 2-bedroom apartment for a single person or just single accommodation?

You were saying it wouldn't be offered.

This contract stated it in the original posting and in the contract:

"Hours: 25 - 30 hours a week between Monday to Thursday. (Three day weekend)
Two - one week paid vacations plus Korean national holidays
50% health care paid by school
One month severance pay at the conclusion of the contract
Round trip airfare paid by the school
Furnished apartment with an ocean view (Two bedroom apartment, not shared), heater, fridge, gas stove, and washing machine "

I have lucked out before with the 3 bedroom on my own and the contract only stated single housing. And yes I was moved to a more suitable, cost efficient apartment when the time came. This one guarantees a 2 - bedroom single no sharing apartment.

ontheway

Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:08 am Post subject:

At my hogwan, too, every teacher gets a single, non-shared, two bedroom apartment or condo in the contract. Why not? We work hard and should get decent housing. And no "security deposit" nonsense either.

jacl

Joined: 31 Oct 2005

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Experts please look over this contract and comment for m

pgplummer wrote:

ttompatz wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

ttompatz wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

ttompatz wrote:

Knowing the value and cost of a 2 bedroom apartment (never heard of it refered to by a Korean in korea that way) it wouldn't be offered or at least not offered that way.

.

I have a 2 bedroom apt (non-shared). I see nothing impossible in that.

And your contract guarantees you a non-shared 2-bedroom apartment for a single person or just single accommodation?

You were saying it wouldn't be offered.

At first, I thought you were getting 2 hours OT Mon-Thu and that really lead me to believe you were full of shit. Then I saw the 2-8:30 schedule (or whatever it was) and thought something was up for sure. I guess I was thinking 2 hours/day OT because that's the law if you have a 30 hr/wk contract where you're teaching 6 hrs/day, Mon-Fri. OT is calculated daily. Anything over 6 teaching hours in one day is OT as is anything outside the parameters of your schedule. I read back and realise now that that wasn't stated. Imagine? 50,000/day OT with Fri, Sat and Sundays off. Wow!

Something's still strange about this though. Not the accomodation thing. Something to do with this schedule. Those days might be rough for you. Guess it would be lilke the song "Everybody's workin' for the long weekend da da da da da dada da" (bad song).

ontheway

Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:52 am Post subject:

jacl, Where in the law, what law, requires overtime to be calculated daily? If your contract is for 30 hours per week and calls for overtime to be calculated weekly, what law overrides that? What if you work 7/5/6/6/6 hours for 30 vs 6/6/6/6/6? Why should you get OT for one and not the other and where does it say that? Just curious.

jacl

Joined: 31 Oct 2005

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:47 am Post subject:

ontheway wrote:

jacl,

Where in the law, what law, requires overtime to be calculated daily? If your contract is for 30 hours per week and calls for overtime to be calculated weekly, what law overrides that?

What if you work 7/5/6/6/6 hours for 30 vs 6/6/6/6/6? Why should you get OT for one and not the other and where does it say that?

Just curious.

Don't remember. But let's not question it. If you come to an agreement that's suitable for both you and your employer then so be it.

Maybe "law" is a harsh word, but I do remember it from somwhere. Has to do with these types of contracts. You could, however, sign this right a way in a contract. Maybe it's just an industry standard. I mean, who in the hell would want to regularly teach more than 6 hours in one day. Even if it's only one or two days a week in a Mon to Fri deal.

Anyway, good thing you asked me that. Now I'm thinking that "Anything more than 6 teaching hours in one day shall be considered OT" should be added to a hagwon contract.

I'll do some diggin and get back to you later.

pgplummer

Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Experts please look over this contract and comment for m

jacl wrote:

pgplummer wrote:

ttompatz wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

ttompatz wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

ttompatz wrote:

Knowing the value and cost of a 2 bedroom apartment (never heard of it refered to by a Korean in korea that way) it wouldn't be offered or at least not offered that way.

.

I have a 2 bedroom apt (non-shared). I see nothing impossible in that.

And your contract guarantees you a non-shared 2-bedroom apartment for a single person or just single accommodation?

You were saying it wouldn't be offered.

At first, I thought you were getting 2 hours OT Mon-Thu and that really lead me to believe you were full of *beep*. Then I saw the 2-8:30 schedule (or whatever it was) and thought something was up for sure. I guess I was thinking 2 hours/day OT because that's the law if you have a 30 hr/wk contract where you're teaching 6 hrs/day, Mon-Fri. OT is calculated daily. Anything over 6 teaching hours in one day is OT as is anything outside the parameters of your schedule. I read back and realise now that that wasn't stated. Imagine? 50,000/day OT with Fri, Sat and Sundays off. Wow!

Something's still strange about this though. Not the accomodation thing. Something to do with this schedule. Those days might be rough for you. Guess it would be lilke the song "Everybody's workin' for the long weekend da da da da da dada da" (bad song).

I hear ya but with the school having a max amount of hours in my day. I get to sleep in everyday, I don't work too late each day and I have 3 days off at a time to relax, travel or recover ( Probably lots of all of these)
Plus the apartment has an oceanview, I have been told it is a fairly new building as well. I will have a computer with internet access added to my contract ( I always do ) I know that PC Bungs are very cheap but nothing beats having it at home for all hours access. If the school will not flip for a cpu then I will bring a laptop from home.

Anyway the hours of teaching are less then having to work a split shift and also less hours then I work currently here in Canada. Once the final details are worked out I will know how many actual classes this school has and what the real hours will be.

CHEERS

Skaborough

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto, ON

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: This is a contract offered with my changes in them.

Not sure if anyone pointed this out or not (as Im too lazy and tired today to go through the rest of the listings), but its very important for you to make sure that the Korean version filed with the government matches to the English. If you sign the english, but it is different than the Korean version you sign, then your up nasty creek w/o a paddle.

Peace,
Patch

pgplummer wrote:

I added the clauses and clarification to make sure all is understood. for example the dress code & the no split shifts etc.
9) I specified the amount of money or percentage as calculated according to Korean tax laws and health care.
10) I specified more specific travel arrangements to be sure I fly to and from as close as possable.
11) I always ask for photos of the apartment if they already have one or I ask to be included in choosing one that I like.
12) I always specify in my contract as to what must be in the apartment when I arrive.

Afterall, This is a contract that has not been signed yet and not negotiated fully yet. I have served 4 contracts in Korea and aside from my first one
( My stupidity of not knowing better ) I have always written my own contract and been paid without problem. They sign my contract with both our revisions and stick to it. So if you though I was green or dreaming up a sweet deal of a contract, then you are mistaken. I just posted it here in case I have forgotten anything or wording needs to be corrected somewhere or more clarification is needed in a certain area.

Thanks to everyone that gave constructive feedback.

Keep the faith and don't overdose on SOJU.

?? ( CHEERS )

pgplummer

Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: This is a contract offered with my changes in them.

Skaborough wrote:

pgplummer wrote:

For those of you that have looked over the contract. I rewrote the offered one in full with my changes.
1) It is a Monday to Thursday Job
2) It does come with a 2 bedroom non sharing apartment.
3) It is on Jeju Island.
4) I made the changes for the sick days from 5 to 8
5) I made a change of vacation days to be more specific for timing.
6) I raised the money by 200000.
7)I made the mistake in retyping of it being 2:00 - 8:30 it should be 1:00 to 8:50.
8) I added the clauses and clarification to make sure all is understood. for example the dress code & the no split shifts etc.
9) I specified the amount of money or percentage as calculated according to Korean tax laws and health care.
10) I specified more specific travel arrangements to be sure I fly to and from as close as possable.
11) I always ask for photos of the apartment if they already have one or I ask to be included in choosing one that I like.
12) I always specify in my contract as to what must be in the apartment when I arrive.

Afterall, This is a contract that has not been signed yet and not negotiated fully yet. I have served 4 contracts in Korea and aside from my first one
( My stupidity of not knowing better ) I have always written my own contract and been paid without problem. They sign my contract with both our revisions and stick to it. So if you though I was green or dreaming up a sweet deal of a contract, then you are mistaken. I just posted it here in case I have forgotten anything or wording needs to be corrected somewhere or more clarification is needed in a certain area.

Thanks to everyone that gave constructive feedback.

Keep the faith and don't overdose on SOJU.

?? ( CHEERS )

Thanks, I will be sure to make sure that a Korean friend goes over the contract in both English and Korean to make sure they match.

CHEERS

jacl

Joined: 31 Oct 2005

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:33 pm Post subject:

Only sign an English contract. Problem solved. From what I've seen, 2.3 is good for Jeju Do. Pretty good deal. You must have teaching experience.

pgplummer

Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Location: Canada

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject:

jacl wrote:

Only sign an English contract. Problem solved.

From what I've seen, 2.3 is good for Jeju Do. Pretty good deal. You must have teaching experience.

Ahh!! I thought you were letting me know about further shady conduct to watch for. Sign an English contract and they file a Korean one that has changes. Thanks for the heads up. I would only sign an English written contract anyway. I have signed 3 contracts before and never been asked to sign one in Korean ( Hangul ) writing. But I am sure they happen regularly.

I do have plenty of teaching experience both as ESL and as Business English Teacher. I have also coached sports for both youth and adults for about 14 years (Baseball, Hockey, Volleyball, and Basketball)

My perfect position would be in a company not a school. I would like to work with Korean Businessmen and/or women that want to do business in English either at home or overseas. I have only found this type of position once and because of a family emergency during my very first contract, I had to return home early and I was unable to accept the position. It was with Hyundai and I am so disappointed that I cannot find something like it again. Once in a lifetime I guess. I would not change the decision I made to return home, as I would have never been able to live with myself if death occurred while I was away. Fortunately it did not and things are great now.

Skaborough

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto, ON

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:03 am Post subject:

Cool, that works too I'm sure. I have not had the experience yet. I just have been warned that under Korean law english contract don't count per se, as Korean is the official language. I'm not too sure on the fine point of the law here...

Would anybody have a better idea how that works out?

Peace,
Patch

jacl wrote:

Only sign an English contract. Problem solved.

From what I've seen, 2.3 is good for Jeju Do. Pretty good deal. You must have teaching experience.

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