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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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 Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| I think a one strike and you're out policy fits this crime. A woman (or a man) who is raped is not just physically injured for a brief time. Rape destroys the person's life. I know, personally, 3 women in my life who have been raped and it affects your life forever. They don't know how to have a normal sexual relationship, or even personal relationships with men. It causes prostitution, drug and alcohol abuse, sucide, etc etc. Its the same as murder, you are destroying a life and so the punishment should be life in prison. |
I applaud your compassion but I think you might want to qualify those statements. Rape does cause damage, but it certainly varies in degree, and the damage will vary as well.
So, I do agree with you Bigverne to an extent, but think about what you said for a minute:
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| If a man continues to the point of climax after consent has been withdrawn, is this really 'rape' and should it receive the same sentence as a man who drags a woman into a dark alley and brutally rapes her? |
I'm not one to get into debates about prison sentences, but f*cking someone who doesn't want to be f*cked (please pardon my strong language here, but I'm trying to convey something important) is deeply disgusting. The idea of having an orgasm while someone protests? Yep, it's rape, and no doubt about it. If he or she wants to stop, then for God's sake stop. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| The idea of having an orgasm while someone protests? Yep, it's rape, and no doubt about it. |
While we can agree that it's rape, it's pretty much impossible to prove. I also don't think it should be in the same category as the kind of brutality I described earlier. |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The idea of having an orgasm while someone protests? Yep, it's rape, and no doubt about it. |
While we can agree that it's rape, it's pretty much impossible to prove. I also don't think it should be in the same category as the kind of brutality I described earlier. |
Well, you could have "assault and rape" and "rape".
The one I find difficult to deal with is "statutory rape". So a nineteen year old woman gets it on with her 17 year and 11 month old boyfriend- that qualifies as rape, and will, in some states in the U.S., put her on a "sexual predator" list for the rest of her life.
The problem with most of this is that law doesn't deal well with degree, intent, etc. If a man drags a woman in the alley and rapes her, it is pretty clear cut. I suspect that in the case of the huge percent that don't get convictions, enough ambiguity gets mixed in with the event, that a black and white distinction is hard to make.
I'm afraid I can see a distinction between violent force, and last minute confusion in what at one time had been a consensual act. Yes, of course, "no means no"- but the guy who goes home together with a young woman, enjoys some more drinks, or whatever, and then doesn't get the "no" at the last minute is a different sort than the one who takes the child in the woods.
But the law allows little distinction, and the average jury is not easily going to convict a young man in the first case of the same offense with the same penalty as the man in the second.
Of course, I also get that there is often bias in rape cases against women. Too often the woman is made out to be the guilty party, or "asking for it". |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| I wont get into raising the conviction rate cause thats a hornets nest im not interested in, but i think one conviction should be life in prison, the same with child molestation and kiddy porn. |
Stuff can be planted on a computer by those with the know-how.
Kiddy-porn is obviously demented, but it would really suck to go to jail because someone sent that to me and I inadvertantly downloaded it without first knowing what it was.
Just a case in point. I check my incoming mail. But the legal process is always a step behind the technological realities. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Im not saying take common sense out of the equation, Im not a Republican. Clearly mechanisms are in place and could be reinforced but its very clear that sex offenders (Rapists, child molesters and kiddy porn people) need more than 5 years. |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| Im not saying take common sense out of the equation, Im not a Republican. Clearly mechanisms are in place and could be reinforced but its very clear that sex offenders (Rapists, child molesters and kiddy porn people) need more than 5 years. |
I believe in protecting society from sexual predators, but the longer those guys are in jail together, the more twisted they become, I fear. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| kermo wrote: |
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| Im not saying take common sense out of the equation, Im not a Republican. Clearly mechanisms are in place and could be reinforced but its very clear that sex offenders (Rapists, child molesters and kiddy porn people) need more than 5 years. |
I believe in protecting society from sexual predators, but the longer those guys are in jail together, the more twisted they become, I fear. |
There is something called the internet. This allows the ones outside jail to share their twisted advice and know how around.
There should be a '3 strikes and off come yer nads.' |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| Kermo, sorry buddy you're wrong. With drug offenders and car thiefs and drunk drivers I agree with you, prison usually makes those people worse. But with sex offenders its a different story, its a fact that those people are almost always going to repeat their offenses so they should never let them out. There is no cure for what they have so letting them out almost ensures another victim. And since most pedophiles are people who were molested themselves and never recieved treatment its absolutely critical that we break the cycle by ensuring that these people never get out. |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| kermo wrote: |
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| Im not saying take common sense out of the equation, Im not a Republican. Clearly mechanisms are in place and could be reinforced but its very clear that sex offenders (Rapists, child molesters and kiddy porn people) need more than 5 years. |
I believe in protecting society from sexual predators, but the longer those guys are in jail together, the more twisted they become, I fear. |
There is something called the internet. This allows the ones outside jail to share their twisted advice and know how around.
There should be a '3 strikes and off come yer nads.' |
I imagine there's internet in jail as well.
I just can't see the logic in saying "We're gonna put you guys in the company of deranged and violent people for years and years, until you're ready to come out and be a nice, normal person!" The idea of prison leading to rehabilitation doesn't jive with me. I'm not saying I have the answers or even a viable alternative. I very very rarely wade into these debates because there's so much to weigh-- the rights of the individual vs the protection of society, punishment vs. rehabilitation, etc.
I don't mind the idea of "3 strikes and off come yer nads" because it satisfies some notion of justice AND it doesn't make the individual more messed-up than when he began. But what if the predator is a woman?  |
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gdimension
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Jeju
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:05 am Post subject: |
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An interesting (and surprising?) article in the WaPo today...
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The number of rapes per capita in the United States has plunged by more than 85 percent since the 1970s, and reported rape fell last year even while other violent offenses increased, according to federal crime data.
This seemingly stunning reduction in sexual violence has been so consistent over the past two decades that some experts say they have started to believe it is accurate, even if they cannot fully explain why it is occurring.
In 1979, according to a Justice Department estimate based on a wide-ranging public survey, there were 2.8 rapes for every 1,000 people. In 2004, the same survey found that the rate had decreased to 0.4 per thousand.
Many criminologists and victims' advocates say that these numbers could be a statistical mirage, because rape is still underreported and poorly understood. But others say they have been convinced that there is real improvement and that a devastating crime has been receding from American life. |
Full article here. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| I agree with Octavius Hite!! |
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