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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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| How much do you like living in Korea? |
| I love it and have no plans to return to my country. |
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10% |
[ 6 ] |
| I am very happy. I am open to the idea of settling down here. |
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21% |
[ 13 ] |
| It's been a wonderful experience. Another year or two would be great here. |
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40% |
[ 24 ] |
| I'm very happy, but there's no place like home. I will return at the end of my contract. |
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8% |
[ 5 ] |
| How many more weeks before I can leave here? |
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20% |
[ 12 ] |
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| Total Votes : 60 |
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drumpounder
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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 Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:44 pm Post subject: How much do you like living in Korea |
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I'm almost finished my first contract here. I don't think there will be a second. It hasn't been a terrible experience, and I'm glad I came here but as my dear friend in Montreal is wont to say, "It's been swell...but the swelling's gone down."
Plus I hate being cold and I absolutely hate Korean food. |
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hermes.trismegistus
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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It seems relevant to remember that many of the people who adopt ESL as a temporary or mid-term employment prospect have precious little going on for them in their place of origin. They rarely leave stable employment to come to Korea. ESL teachers overwhelmingly appear to be running away from whatever, and they come here where they can be a *Star* among sycophantic Koreans and others.
I've met plenty of people who enjoyed teaching ESL in Korea. More in Formosa. A handful each in Japan and China. Having taught in all those countries myself, I saw first-hand what types of personalities adjusted best.
You see plenty of foreigners dating Asians who they can barely have a dialogue with - and esoteric concepts would be an impossibility. Not that it would be a concern, because you rarely find introspective Westerners subjecting themselves to ESL - at least, not for long.
But, of course, one cannot teach what cannot be taught.
For me, having been in Asia for so long, counting down the weeks doesn't do my enthusiasm of getting out of here justice.
I left a position as an assistant prof of undergrad history at the University of Southern Alabama. I've used ESL as a medium for funding global travel. It has enabled me and my fainc�e to travel all over Asia and to live throughout Europe and Northern Africa. This last year will fund our wedding and start-up costs. Thankfully, I teach technical writing and biology, so I don't do ESL anymore. Otherwise I'd have gone as loopy as the nutters who've been here 10 years.
Namaste.
Last edited by hermes.trismegistus on Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Overall I enjoyed it, and I found most of the people pretty nice, but sometimes it was frustrating and sometimes I wondered if I was missing out on other countries or if I should go back to Canada and do other things. Now I wish I'd stayed a few more years in my last job in Korea, and I wish I'd put in more time trying to learn the language. Maybe some day I'll think about going back, but it would depend on so many things ...
Last edited by red dog on Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| hermes.trismegistus wrote: |
It seems relevant to remember that many of the people who adopt ESL as a temporary or mid-term employment prospect have precious little going on for them in their place of origin. They rarely leave stable employment to come to Korea. ESL teachers overwhelmingly appear to be running away from whatever, and they come here where they can be a *Star* among sycophantic Koreans and others.
I've met plenty of people who enjoyed teaching ESL in Korea. More in Formosa. A handful each in Japan and China. Having taught in all those countries myself, I saw first-hand what types of personalities adjusted best.
You see plenty of foreigners dating Asians who they can barely have a dialogue with - and esoteric concepts would be an impossibility. Not that it would be a concern, because you rarely find introspective Westerners subjecting themselves to ESL - at least, not for long.
But, of course, one cannot teach what cannot be taught.
For me, having been in Asia for so long, counting down the weeks doesn't do my enthusiasm of getting out of here justice.
I left a position as an assistant prof of undergrad history at the University of Southern Alabama. I've used ESL as a medium for funding global travel. It has enabled me to travel all over Asia and to live throughout Europe and Northern Africa. This last year will fund our wedding and start-up costs. Thankfully, I teach technical writing and biology, so I don't do ESL anymore. Otherwise I'd have gone as loopy as the nutters who've been here 10 years.
Namaste. |
I normally just scroll past your drivel, but this is complete crap! And the fact that you were an assistant prof shows why so many BAs are coming out morons.
For the thread itself...
Life is what you make of it. Seriously, even the worse of us has it better than 4 billion people.
Take my Chinese teachers in the hagwon I study at.
800,000 won a month.
One week holiday, and you have to fight for that. You also only get it if you renew another year.
They all live at their wangjangnim's house on the second floor. 2 teachers to a room (not the biggest either). The wangjangnim has a 1 year old baby and a crazy mother.
They teach 36 classes a month with no OT.
Chinese people are treated much worse than we whities are (don't know about black people though).
Yet I have yet to see them complain.
Stop complaining. There are lots of things I shake my head at here in Korea, maybe more so than back home. But it's not horrid. I am happy I have the opportunity to see another culture while getting paid.
I also have yet after 10 months to recieve any kind of racism or actual hate. Then again, I treat everyone the same and always smile. |
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hermes.trismegistus
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| I normally just scroll past your drivel, but this is complete crap! And the fact that you were an assistant prof shows why so many BAs are coming out morons. |
Actually, I have several degrees.
| Quote: |
| Life is what you make of it. Seriously, even the worse of us has it better than 4 billion people. |
You make a logical fallacy (amusing, considering you insulted me as a 'moron'): Criticism of X != endorsement of Y.
Many have it better than many. It doesn't mean that better shouldn't be pursued.
| Quote: |
| I also have yet after 10 months to recieve any kind of racism or actual hate. Then again, I treat everyone the same and always smile. |
Lucky for you. I've had ajumas pass to the other side of the street instead of passing a wae-guk on the sidewalk. I've had children refuse to get on the elevator with a wae-guk. I've had taxis rip me off for over 50,000 in excess of the fare. I've had taxis drive up and refuse to porter a wae-guk. I've had more first-hand experience of racism than I ever saw dished-out in the Deep South. Koreans have one of the most homogenous and xenophobic cultures on the planet. One can expect a good deal of racism. When you add in their Confucian BS, where one doesn't even recognize you as a person until they've been introduced, and you have a pretty disgusting situation. People cut in front of you in line, push you out of the way, or interrupt you while you discuss issues with a clerk. People can't drive (the worst driving record in the industrialized world, in fact). An intensely nationalisitc culture steeped in sameness and conservative ideologies akin to 'red states'. Etc.
I see plenty of reason to look forward to getting out of this hell.
I don't fault those who have enjoyed their time here. Different strokes, after all. Some people want more for dinner than a pile of dung on a pretty China dish.
Namaste. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| hermes.trismegistus wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| I normally just scroll past your drivel, but this is complete crap! And the fact that you were an assistant prof shows why so many BAs are coming out morons. |
Actually, I have several degrees.
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Not surprised in the least actually
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| Quote: |
| Life is what you make of it. Seriously, even the worse of us has it better than 4 billion people. |
You make a logical fallacy (amusing, considering you insulted me as a 'moron'): Criticism of X != endorsement of Y.
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actually, I didn't. Read again.
But for my logical fallacy, you are right. Doesn't mean you can't try to achieve better. It does mean that Korea is not the "hell" you are saying. If it is "hell", then what is it for the other 4 billion? I said that to show your hyperbole.
For someone who thinks they are supremely intelligent and superior (and you most definitely do, reading almost any of your posts can show this), I am surprised you would resort to broad generalizations. Like I said, sh!t. |
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periwinkle
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm happy here. I'm happy at home, too. 6:1, half a dozen or the other. Work is better here, though. Also, I worry less here (due to financial opportunities). At home I worried too much... |
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OiGirl
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| hermes.trismegistus wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I also have yet after 10 months to recieve any kind of racism or actual hate. Then again, I treat everyone the same and always smile. |
Lucky for you. I've had ajumas pass to the other side of the street instead of passing a wae-guk on the sidewalk. I've had children refuse to get on the elevator with a wae-guk. I've had taxis rip me off for over 50,000 in excess of the fare. I've had taxis drive up and refuse to porter a wae-guk. I've had more first-hand experience of racism than I ever saw dished-out in the Deep South.
...
I see plenty of reason to look forward to getting out of this hell.
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If you are experiencing this kind of treatment, perhaps it is not because of your race. Perhaps there is some other factor. |
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Doogie
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Location: Hwaseong City
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| So far, I've enjoyed my time in Korea. I've been here for one year and I'll be staying for one more. That'll be it, though. There's still a lot I want to see out there. |
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hermes.trismegistus
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| It does mean that Korea is not the "hell" you are saying. If it is "hell", then what is it for the other 4 billion? |
I wouldn't suggest that Korea is hell for 4 billion people. Indeed, I would suggest that most of that 4 billion wouldn't know hell if it straddled their faces. Domesticated primates should not be mistaken for human beings. A human being knows themself and their place in the Cosmos, and makes their own psychological and behavioral scripts. In my travels through Asia, I can count the number of people who could do that on two hands. (That would exclude a wonderful experience staying at a martial Buddhist temple in Kyeongju.)
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| For someone who thinks they are supremely intelligent and superior (and you most definitely do, reading almost any of your posts can show this), I am surprised you would resort to broad generalizations. |
I don't think myself 'supremely intelligent and superior'. I only strive to do the best I can with the facilities available to me. As Ken Wilber writes, "Enlightenment is elitest by definition, but it is never exclusive." In other words, step up to the challenge instead of whining.
Generalizations form a fundamental principle of intelligence. Without generalization we can never draw comparisons among invariant representations, and thus we could have no intelligence. However, generalizations mistaken as universalizations decay into fallacy. I haven't mistaken my generalizations as universalizations. I speak from my limited experience only. So it would seem that you have universalized my generalizations for me, even if I have not.
I avoid semantic traps of being. I've used E-choice and E-prime throughout my comments. They lack the fundamentalisms you interpret through them.
Namaste. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| hermes.trismegistus wrote: |
| laogaiguk wrote: |
| It does mean that Korea is not the "hell" you are saying. If it is "hell", then what is it for the other 4 billion? |
I wouldn't suggest that Korea is hell for 4 billion people. Indeed, I would suggest that most of that 4 billion wouldn't know hell if it straddled their faces. Domesticated primates should not be mistaken for human beings. A human being knows themself and their place in the Cosmos, and makes their own psychological and behavioral scripts. In my travels through Asia, I can count the number of people who could do that on two hands. (That would exclude a wonderful experience staying at a martial Buddhist temple in Kyeongju.)
| Quote: |
| For someone who thinks they are supremely intelligent and superior (and you most definitely do, reading almost any of your posts can show this), I am surprised you would resort to broad generalizations. |
I don't think myself 'supremely intelligent and superior'. I only strive to do the best I can with the facilities available to me. As Ken Wilber writes, "Enlightenment is elitest by definition, but it is never exclusive." In other words, step up to the challenge instead of whining.
Generalizations form a fundamental principle of intelligence. Without generalization we can never draw comparisons among invariant representations, and thus we could have no intelligence. However, generalizations mistaken as universalizations decay into fallacy. I haven't mistaken my generalizations as universalizations. I speak from my limited experience only. So it would seem that you have universalized my generalizations for me, even if I have not.
I avoid semantic traps of being. I've used E-choice and E-prime throughout my comments. They lack the fundamentalisms you interpret through them.
Namaste. |
This is a good example of your superiority complex. Obviously I don't understand your BA in sh!t lingo. If you were going to debate, you would use normal (or universally understood) English. This post is just arrogance covered with lack of debating skills (if you use language you know your opponent won't know, it is not a debate), and I have no doubt you get everything you deserve from Koreans. If you act like this to us (all the time), it is no wonder Koreans treat you bad.
Anyways, like I said, I will continue to ignore the drivel you spout out (I swear people like this are the danger to society, more so than asteroids, terrorism, global warming, market crashes, etc all combined.) |
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hermes.trismegistus
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| This is a good example of your superiority complex. Obviously I don't understand your BA in *beep* lingo. If you were going to debate, you would use normal (or universally understood) English. This post is just arrogance covered with lack of debating skills (if you use language you know your opponent won't know, it is not a debate), and I have no doubt you get everything you deserve from Koreans. If you act like this to us (all the time), it is no wonder Koreans treat you bad. |
So you suggest 'good' debate skills include catering to ignorance?
I disagree.
If you haven't encountered the memes discussed, then your own limited exposure seems more at fault than anything else.
Namaste. |
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Woland
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm back after a number of years away. I liked Korea when I worked here before. I like it now even more because my job is better and, honestly, Korea itself has improved in my time away. That all said, I will probably return in a few years to Turkey, where I worked for seven years and have a feeling of being at home. But I'm not in a hurry to leave here. Every place is its own good adventure. |
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indytrucks
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: The Shelf
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| hermes.trismegistus wrote: |
Otherwise I'd have gone as loopy as the nutters who've been here 10 years.
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I have lived here for nearly 10 years and am neither a nutter nor loopy. But unlike you, TESL/TEFL is my profession. I am qualified and trained in it. One of the perks of my current job is months and months of paid holiday which I have used to travel and do the same things you have. Soon I will move on to different ESL pastures in Europe or North America but not because of my dislike for Korea. Korea is no Utopia, but it has afforded me a very comfortable lifestyle which I have used as a means, but in no way see as an end.
If "generalizations form a fundemental principle of intelligence", your generalization that long-term residents here are loopy or mentally deficient in some way reflects a fundemental principle of your own stunted intelligence.
PS Is anyone else on the board convinced that Hermes is Satori's/Kiwiboy's sock? Same self-important tone, same structure to his arguments ... how many "assistant professors at the University of Alabama" do you know of use English slang like "loopy" and "nutter"? |
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kiwigirl :O)
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Location: Bundang
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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so far so good 
i have a good school ...awesome co teachers too 
and i see both korean and expats friends on a regular basis
i would like to be here for at least another year or so...long enough to pay off my debt back home and to finance a trip to europe and then ill probably come back again for another contract and finance another trip to central and south america
kg |
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