| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
|
 Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:14 am Post subject: Canadian judicial leniency gone too far....again..... |
 |
|
| Quote: |
Teenager avoids jail for fatal rock toss
KATHERINE HARDING
From Friday's Globe and Mail
EDMONTON � A young man who dropped a 14-kilogram rock from a freeway overpass through the windshield of a school bus, killing the driver, has been sentenced to six months of house arrest and 18 months of probation.
Judge Danielle Dalton said Thursday that the man, who pleaded guilty to the crime this year, shouldn't go to jail because it could hurt his chances of rehabilitation.
Robert Stanley, 75, was driving a chartered bus on June 1, 2002, when a basketball-sized rock hurtled through his windshield, hitting him in the stomach. He pulled the bus over safely before dying from his injuries.
Judge Dalton suggested it was teenage immaturity -- the man was 15 at the time -- and that he did not deliberately set out to kill anyone.
"Adolescent stupidity at its zenith, not malevolence, caused the death of Robert Stanley," she said.
Even though the young man helped to cause Mr. Stanley's death and then, with friends, kept it quiet for three years, Judge Dalton said he had shown remorse. She said psychiatric reports showed the man, now 19, felt grief and responsibility and did not have a violent nature.
The man looked relieved as he walked into a courthouse conference room with his family yesterday after the sentencing.
He had been with friends celebrating their Grade 9 graduation when they decided to drop the rock. They agreed to keep what they did secret for three years -- but it unravelled when the wrong person was arrested for the crime.
Mr. Stanley's widow, Judy, said it's been depressing to sit through court proceedings with the youth.
"Yes, what he got was light," she said. "But . . . this is how Bob would have wanted us to handle it, because he loved kids so much."
With a report from Canadian Press |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
I agree, there is no point in sending the guy to jail. His crimes quite likely resulted from immaturity rather than malice, as the article stated.
I do wonder, though, how it is that a 15 year old in our society can be so immature so as not to foresee pretty awful consequences from dropping a 14 kilogram rock from a bridge onto a moving vehicle. That's the sort of lapse in judgement I would expect from a 5 year old. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JAWINSEOUL
Joined: 19 Nov 2005
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I agree, there is no point in sending the guy to jail. His crimes quite likely resulted from immaturity rather than malice, |
I disagree 100% with this statement and the finding of the judge. As an experienced rock thrower in my youth I know young boys only understand two things.
#1 What will the effect be on the car and the passenger? Due to the lack of understanding regarding the �Real world� effect of their actions, young boys do these things to see what would happen, hence your lack of maturity defense.
#2 What will happen to me if I do this? Well thanks to the wonderful message conveyed by the judges sentence the answer to this question will be; not a damn thing I�m just a kid.
Since their lack of maturity will stop them from understanding the outcome of their actions, it is the courts job to make them understand the ramifications on their own life.
| Quote: |
| I do wonder, though, how it is that a 15 year old in our society can be so immature so as not to foresee pretty awful consequences from dropping a 14 kilogram rock from a bridge onto a moving vehicle. That's the sort of lapse in judgement I would expect from a 5 year old. |
It is quite obviouse you are a female, and completely underestimate the immaturity of a 15 year old boy. If you knew it would change your opinion and probably scare you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The sentence was the right thing to do. The family was consulted and thats what they wanted so I can't see a problem with it.
On another note, we have to stop saying that underage people has the same level of responsibilty as adults. If that is true then we should allow 15 year olds to drink and vote and drive and marry. You can't say a kid is responsible for one thing but not for all the others. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
The sentence was the right thing to do. The family was consulted and thats what they wanted so I can't see a problem with it.
On another note, we have to stop saying that underage people has the same level of responsibilty as adults. If that is true then we should allow 15 year olds to drink and vote and drive and marry. You can't say a kid is responsible for one thing but not for all the others. |
But then is a kid not responsible for anything just because he isn't old enough to drive or vote? What about murder or rape? Arson?
At 15 years old you still can see that throwing a basketball sized rock off of an overpass could - and most likely would - cause death or a serious accident. And 15 year olds, unfortunately, now think they won't be treated seriously by the law. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Quote:
I do wonder, though, how it is that a 15 year old in our society can be so immature so as not to foresee pretty awful consequences from dropping a 14 kilogram rock from a bridge onto a moving vehicle. That's the sort of lapse in judgement I would expect from a 5 year old.
It is quite obviouse you are a female, and completely underestimate the immaturity of a 15 year old boy. If you knew it would change your opinion and probably scare you.
|
Uhh, no. I'm male, and believe me, I do not underestimate the immaturity of 15 year old boys. In fact, I had a rock hucked long distance at my head in junior high school, by a boy who must have been about 15. Missed my temple by centimetres.
But yes, my statement wasn't worded very well, for what I was trying to convey. Here, let me try again...
Why does our society produce such immature 15 year olds? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
They always go to far.
Remember that chick who used to help her husband kill girls--including her very own sister.
She let her husband rape and sodomize her younger sister before killing the poor girl.
Guess what? She's out now.
Canadian justice knows no bounds.
I can't remember the dudes name. Paul something or another. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You're thinking of old Paul Bernado and his wife Karla Holmolka.
Anyway, again I say if society says that the age of majority is 18 because before that you AREN'T responsible enough to do things that adults do then the same goes for crime. You can't apply the law differently just because you are outraged. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
You're thinking of old Paul Bernado and his wife Karla Holmolka.
Anyway, again I say if society says that the age of majority is 18 because before that you AREN'T responsible enough to do things that adults do then the same goes for crime. You can't apply the law differently just because you are outraged. |
So there's no problem with a justice system that puts Karla on the streets, even though she was an active participant in her sister's rape and murder?
You never cease to amaze me, my man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Listen what happened with Karla was ridiculous, but she wasn't let out because of her age and I wasn't defending her. Secondly, jail at least in Canada, is about rehabilitation. If she has come out of jail and hasn't commited a serious crime or pose a threat to other citizens then I don't have a serious problem with it. It really depends on whose story you believe, she told prosecutors that she was an abused wife, scared for her life who had no choice in the murders. There was eveidence supporting this and its not unreasonable to think that was the case. The other side is Paul saying she was the devil in the works and she helped him willingly. I could also believe that but I try to not to listen to serial killers/rapists to often as their credibility is usually lacking. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Anyway, again I say if society says that the age of majority is 18 because before that you AREN'T responsible enough to do things that adults do then the same goes for crime. You can't apply the law differently just because you are outraged. |
I agree. This does not mean you are not responsible at all for anything you do before you are 18, and killing someone and then lying about for three years as someone else gets charged for it is a little bigger than taking some candy from the store.
A short house arrest and probation is not rehabilitation. Why not a $25 fine and an hour of sweeping up in front of the court building? The punishment is laughable and sends a signal to other youths that they can do as they please, and there's no indication in the article of mandatory counseling or other rehabilitation for this little psychopath. A 14-kilogram rock is not a snowball.
This is not Anglo-Saxon England, where the aggrieved family negotiates for blood money. Regardless of the widow's leniancy, the teenager committed murder and deserves jail time, regardless of hand-wringing about how it will affect his future. The man he killed has no future, and the people on his bus nearly didn't have one either.
Ken:> |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I'm not impressed with them keeping it quiet for 3 years. I would be more convinced the kid had remorse for his actions of he'd have stepped forward right away, or at least soon afterwards. So I'd have sent him away for a good while longer than he got. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cosmicgirlie
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The joys of the YCJA. It's all about rehabilitation not incarceration. I wonder if a justice circle was performed in order for the widow to settle with the sentance.
The thing about this youth is that his guilt about the whole incident brought about his responsibility for his part in the incident. That's a lot more than I can say for the majority of the people out there.
As for the "immaturity" of a 15 year old....the average North American does not really leave adolescenthood now until well into their late 20's. This is the societal trend that has been occuring as of late. It's the overprotective and fearful society we are raising our kids in. You parents out there be aware that if you don't start allowing for autonomy growth your child will not be an adult until well into their late 20's. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This reminds me of a similar case in Oregon a few years back. A little boy shot and killed his little sister.. he was just playing and didn't understand the serious consequences of his actions.
There was quite a bit of controversy over what should happen.. I believe in the end it was just recognized as an awful tragedy but nothing they could really do to the boy himself - seems like that in itself is awful enough to live through as you later understand it.
The boy with the bus.. equally tragic. I think they should make him do community service where he has to go to other schools around the country and discuss the consequences of actions like that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Man known as The Man
Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Location: 3 cheers for Ted Haggard oh yeah!
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| canuckistan wrote: |
| I'm not impressed with them keeping it quiet for 3 years. I would be more convinced the kid had remorse for his actions of he'd have stepped forward right away, or at least soon afterwards. So I'd have sent him away for a good while longer than he got. |
Why vote Liberal then? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
