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England are a good team.
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rocklee



Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:07 am    Post subject: England are a good team. Reply with quote

Does this make sense?
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ajuma



Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Is" or "has" are better verbs in this sentence.
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krats1976



Joined: 14 May 2003

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: England are a good team. Reply with quote

rocklee wrote:
Does this make sense?


We tackled this one not too long ago. In standard American English, it should be "England is a good team" because American English treats collective nouns as singular. But, British English seems to treat collective nouns as plural, so "England are a good team" is correct in that context.
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SPINOZA



Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajuma wrote:
"Is" or "has" are better verbs in this sentence.


British English tends to view a team (as well as a band, and a family) as an "are".
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ajuma



Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Location: Anywere but Seoul!!

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SPINOZA wrote:

British English tends to view a team (as well as a band, and a family) as an "are".


Now that you mention it, I do remember having a few problems convincing my British CELTA instructor that "is" is also correct.

You've got to feel sorry for our students, though, huh? Rolling Eyes
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Adventurer



Joined: 28 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajuma wrote:
SPINOZA wrote:

British English tends to view a team (as well as a band, and a family) as an "are".


Now that you mention it, I do remember having a few problems convincing my British CELTA instructor that "is" is also correct.

You've got to feel sorry for our students, though, huh? Rolling Eyes


Well, I think Americans and British don't quite know the differences that exist between them when it comes to grammar. Canadian grammar kind of falls somewhere in-between. Grammar British style also uses are for music groups. I also believe there are some cases where people in England will not use articles in front of certain words that Americans might. For example, you would always hear a North American say "in the future", but some people in England will say "in future". And as far as the spelling, the British used to use American style spelling and the current way of spelling that is used in England. I read somewhere that, in the past, people in England could spell the word colur with or without the letter u in the word. And there are some different rules when it comes to using commas and also, when it comes to acronyms, like NASA, people in England won't capitalize all those letters. I've had British, Canadian, and American teachers.
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djsmnc



Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

England are a great country

Why do Americans say "New Englanders" when we say that people from England are British?
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Satori



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I think of a team I think "they" not "it", so "are" seems right to me...
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jacl



Joined: 31 Oct 2005

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. Let's take a team: Philadelphia Flyers.

When I refer to them by the city name, I say "Philadelphia is good". Although I sometimes use "are" here. When I refer to them by the team name, I say "The Flyers are good".

I don't think it matters, really. Depends how you're thinking of the team in your head. You definitely wouldn't say "It's good" instead of "They're good". You know? You point to the team on the ice or the field. Do you say, "It's a good team." No. I guess you could say "That's a good team". "They" though has a more human quality to it.

Again, it's not important.
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caniff



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it differs depending on whether you are referring to the organization or the players as a group of individuals.

"Boston has a good baseball team. They are good. Boston is good (in the context of baseball)."

All seem correct to me. Very Happy
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cubanlord



Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

then would you say, "England be a good team?"

Doesn't it just boil down to symantics and what a culture or group deems correct among themselves? This reminds me of a book/article my wife read about Linguists studying Ebonics and saying that "the language has structure and is used correctly...etc...etc."

I guess it really depends on what the person learning that specific language wants to learn i.e. which dialect, which vocabulary, which grammar structure, etc.
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Satori



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cubanlord wrote:
then would you say, "England be a good team?"

Doesn't it just boil down to symantics and what a culture or group deems correct among themselves?

No and no. It's not semantics ( the meaning of words ) it's grammar ( the structural rules of words ).
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Pyongshin Sangja



Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except that the Flyers suck.
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khyber



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no.
England ain't a good team
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billybrobby



Joined: 09 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An Englishman wouldn't say "England are a good country" would he?? That would blow my mind.

And do English people say "Pink Floyd are a good band?" (and don't answer with "No, they say 'Pink Floyd are a bunch of pretentious wanks.'")
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