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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: England are a good team. |
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Does this make sense? |
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ajuma

Joined: 18 Feb 2003 Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:53 am Post subject: |
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"Is" or "has" are better verbs in this sentence. |
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krats1976

Joined: 14 May 2003
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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: England are a good team. |
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rocklee wrote: |
Does this make sense? |
We tackled this one not too long ago. In standard American English, it should be "England is a good team" because American English treats collective nouns as singular. But, British English seems to treat collective nouns as plural, so "England are a good team" is correct in that context. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005 Location: $eoul
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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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ajuma wrote: |
"Is" or "has" are better verbs in this sentence. |
British English tends to view a team (as well as a band, and a family) as an "are". |
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ajuma

Joined: 18 Feb 2003 Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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SPINOZA wrote: |
British English tends to view a team (as well as a band, and a family) as an "are". |
Now that you mention it, I do remember having a few problems convincing my British CELTA instructor that "is" is also correct.
You've got to feel sorry for our students, though, huh?  |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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ajuma wrote: |
SPINOZA wrote: |
British English tends to view a team (as well as a band, and a family) as an "are". |
Now that you mention it, I do remember having a few problems convincing my British CELTA instructor that "is" is also correct.
You've got to feel sorry for our students, though, huh?  |
Well, I think Americans and British don't quite know the differences that exist between them when it comes to grammar. Canadian grammar kind of falls somewhere in-between. Grammar British style also uses are for music groups. I also believe there are some cases where people in England will not use articles in front of certain words that Americans might. For example, you would always hear a North American say "in the future", but some people in England will say "in future". And as far as the spelling, the British used to use American style spelling and the current way of spelling that is used in England. I read somewhere that, in the past, people in England could spell the word colur with or without the letter u in the word. And there are some different rules when it comes to using commas and also, when it comes to acronyms, like NASA, people in England won't capitalize all those letters. I've had British, Canadian, and American teachers. |
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djsmnc

Joined: 20 Jan 2003 Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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England are a great country
Why do Americans say "New Englanders" when we say that people from England are British? |
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Satori

Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Location: Above it all
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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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When I think of a team I think "they" not "it", so "are" seems right to me... |
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jacl
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Ok. Let's take a team: Philadelphia Flyers.
When I refer to them by the city name, I say "Philadelphia is good". Although I sometimes use "are" here. When I refer to them by the team name, I say "The Flyers are good".
I don't think it matters, really. Depends how you're thinking of the team in your head. You definitely wouldn't say "It's good" instead of "They're good". You know? You point to the team on the ice or the field. Do you say, "It's a good team." No. I guess you could say "That's a good team". "They" though has a more human quality to it.
Again, it's not important. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Location: All over the map
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Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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I think it differs depending on whether you are referring to the organization or the players as a group of individuals.
"Boston has a good baseball team. They are good. Boston is good (in the context of baseball)."
All seem correct to me.  |
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cubanlord

Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Location: In Japan!
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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:26 am Post subject: |
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then would you say, "England be a good team?"
Doesn't it just boil down to symantics and what a culture or group deems correct among themselves? This reminds me of a book/article my wife read about Linguists studying Ebonics and saying that "the language has structure and is used correctly...etc...etc."
I guess it really depends on what the person learning that specific language wants to learn i.e. which dialect, which vocabulary, which grammar structure, etc. |
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Satori

Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Location: Above it all
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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:19 am Post subject: |
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cubanlord wrote: |
then would you say, "England be a good team?"
Doesn't it just boil down to symantics and what a culture or group deems correct among themselves? |
No and no. It's not semantics ( the meaning of words ) it's grammar ( the structural rules of words ). |
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Pyongshin Sangja

Joined: 20 Apr 2003 Location: I love baby!
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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:24 am Post subject: |
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Except that the Flyers suck. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Compunction Junction
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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:26 am Post subject: |
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no.
England ain't a good team |
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billybrobby

Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:01 am Post subject: |
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An Englishman wouldn't say "England are a good country" would he?? That would blow my mind.
And do English people say "Pink Floyd are a good band?" (and don't answer with "No, they say 'Pink Floyd are a bunch of pretentious wanks.'") |
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