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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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 Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| Milwaukiedave wrote: |
The troll I dislike the most is Patchy.
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Make that past tense buddy...  Someone decided to flush the toilet and there has been a distinctively fresh and pleasing aroma around here ever sinse...  |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:00 am Post subject: |
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The biggest problem with the Communist idea is its atheistic nature. Spiritual communism, recognizing that God - not the State - is the real proprietor of everything would be welcome and is the best system for the laborer class of people. (There's also the problem of artifically designating everyone as belonging to just one class when there are naturally different types of people suited for different types of work...)
Since God is not pleased by atheism, most people under such a system will never be happy or prosperous (and will continue to rely on large amounts of vodka and other alcoholic beverages to survive - like a lot of expats in Korea...) Of course, godless capitalism is not pleasing to God either. People who are "business class" by their nature and quality of work function best in a capitalist system, but the best business people have some God consciousness and faith in something beyond materialism. |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
Capitalism is far from perfect, but it's the closest we can get. |
The United States, the scandanvian countries, Canada, Britian, are a hybrid of capitalism and socialism. I think they are far superior than any theoretical capitalist system.
there is, of course, a distinction between an economic system and a system of government. Facism can operate under any economic system save true socialism. Singapore is very capitalist, very rich. Their people have very little freedom.
Capitalism is tied to the idea of "stuff" - capital, just as communism is with its the materialist dialectic. Humanity is now engaged in moving past all this "stuff", all this junk around us to the realm of information and services.
We should not get so complacent to think that we have somehow found the best system that there can be. We should instead remain skeptical and inquisitive towards a better system. There may not be such a perfect system, but we can pretend that there is so that we can evolve up towards it.
Do we need 100 companies churning out nearly identical toothpaste? Is it healthy to profit off of the sick? Capitalism is an ugly, ugly beast, and is in no way responsible for human rights and freedom. That there is a correlation between some countries seen as capitalist and a higher level of human rights is tied to a myriad of factors. But note that when the United States was far more capitalist (i.e. the 1890s), Americans had far less access to their basic rights than they do now when America has many aspects of socialism.
The good fight never ends, except with those too lazy to try. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
Do we need 100 companies churning out nearly identical toothpaste? |
Yes we do, if there were only one they could set whatever price they like for it... |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:01 am Post subject: |
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My vision of a troll wannabe:
Scene: A small, messy room, often in Mom's basement, with a study light, a pool of light in the dark room, a sweaty guy with one hand permanently attached to his crotch and a poster of Pamela Anderson on the wall.
TW (Troll Wannabe): I wannabe noticed. I wannabe noticed. What creative thing can I do? What creative thing can I do?....(hours and then days and then weeks go by)...
Eureka! I'll go online and be as obnoxious as I can. No one has thought of that before. That is a genuine outlet for my creative genius. I've joined like 57 different sites and no one ever paid me much attention--just like the popular guys/girls in high school. But now I'm educated. I'll put mom and dad's money to work provoking useless discussions online. That is pure genius, even if I have to say so myself. Oh, oh, oh! I'll even stalk some posters. That's a good idea. I'll follow some posters around and post pointless irrelevant responses. That should show them what fools they are. OOOOO! I'll make a 'character' with a flakey point of view. I mean how cool is that?
And someday, someone will notice my brilliance and I'll be famous and then the girls who wouldn't date me in high school will be sorry. Yeah, they will. But then I'll be so cool that I will turn them down when they want me....well maybe not Sue Ellen, she's still hot and I think she would've gone out with me but LeRoy threw up on her foot just when I asked her to the senior prom so it wasn't really me she was rejecting. |
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ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
| ChopChaeJoe wrote: |
Do we need 100 companies churning out nearly identical toothpaste? |
Yes we do, if there were only one they could set whatever price they like for it... |
Do you honestly believe that? Really? For toothpaste?
What if the task were assigned to qualified professionals who had the public trust through citizen oversight and input? Then we would have a much more efficient system. There could be more resources put into solving more pressing problems than making toothpaste. or shampoo. or any number of products.
There would have to be some incentive for improvement, but how much improvement in toothpaste or shampoo has taken place in the past 50 years? Yet all of these scientists and technicians work for those 100 companies nonetheless. What a waste of time and resources.
Capitalism is efficint for leading technological improvements -- that is coming up with new ideas. it isn't efficient at all at other things.
There is no perfect system. but we enslave ourselves in one way or another when we brainwash ourselcves into thinking we have found the best way. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| I'll go online and be as obnoxious as I can. |
Otis was fairly amusing for a couple of days. However, he did range wildly between obnoxious and mentally ill. |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: |
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What's more ironic than a thread about trolls where the first troll extolled then trolls and everyone polled who scrolled then pays the toll for being a tool?  
Wow--soviet-man has apparently still got it.
Last edited by flotsam on Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pegpig
Joined: 10 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: |
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However did we get to the communism talk? Hmmm. Very interesting.
I didn't know it was possible to like a troll. I find Worldwide and Otis to be the most annoying and trolling to me. Princess a troll? I don't know about that one. She definitely has one of the more appropriate usernames though. |
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jaderedux
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Lurking outside Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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My vote goes to worldwide! Reminds me of my college days...all intellect and fire. I studied Marxism, communism with a passion. Touted Maoism. Studied the works of Marx, Mao, Che (my personal fave as I am hispanic).
Wore my beret. Boycotted lettuce. Marched. Burned American flags.
Then I had to get a job.
He is cute as is sovietman in their earnest naivete. I always like Sovietman's intellectual explanations of the excesses and atrocitites committed under Mao, Dear Leader, Stalin, and the fun Gulags of Russia.
But for pure virulent trolliness (is that a word?) I have to say Worldwide has my vote always.
Jade |
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soviet_man
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Satori,
If you ever -
* Get unfairly sacked by your school.
* Lose your pension.
* Be forced to work overtime.
* Don't get severence pay.
* Don't get paid your end of year bonus.
* Don't get vacation entitlements.
* Don't get a pay increase.
* Can't afford medical care.
* Can't afford legal representation.
* Can't afford to buy a house.
Then don't come here and complain about it.
I mean - practice what you preach:
If you want to defend free-market principles and scorched-earth capitalism, then that's OK - but you then have absolutely no right to complain about it, if you get totally and utterly screwed over by that ideology one day. |
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poet13
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Location: Just over there....throwing lemons.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| one word...... alejovoz |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| soviet_man wrote: |
Satori,
If you ever -
* Get unfairly sacked by your school.
* Lose your pension.
* Be forced to work overtime.
* Don't get severence pay.
* Don't get paid your end of year bonus.
* Don't get vacation entitlements.
* Don't get a pay increase.
* Can't afford medical care.
* Can't afford legal representation.
* Can't afford to buy a house.
Then don't come here and complain about it.
I mean - practice what you preach:
If you want to defend free-market principles and scorched-earth capitalism, then that's OK - but you then have absolutely no right to complain about it, if you get totally and utterly screwed over by that ideology one day. |
Allow me to kindly point out that your post makes absolutely no sense what so ever. This is why people promoting communism these days have no credibility. You clearly don't understand what either communism or capitalism is. All of the things in your list happen under communism too, and they are certainly not caused by capitalism. You seem to think that capitalism implies lawlessnes and the absence of protection from being ripped off. That is entirely untrue. Your simplistic charicature of life under capitalism is utterly misleading and deviod of any trace of reality. Thus I now question not only your intelligence but your very mental stability. Be honest, are you, in fact, mentally handicapped? There is no shame in it if you are, best to come out of the closet, then we can understand your perspective better. Some of my best friends have down syndrome with severe autistic complications! |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:17 am Post subject: |
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After reviewing the results of the OP, I have decided to reverse my decision and state firmly that my favorite troll is, naturally: Troll_Bait.
But the irony of this onion is so pungent I can't see or think straight anymore. |
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soviet_man
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Allow me to kindly point out that your post makes absolutely no sense what so ever. This is why people promoting communism these days have no credibility. You clearly don't understand what either communism or capitalism is. All of the things in your list happen under communism too, and they are certainly not caused by capitalism. You seem to think that capitalism implies lawlessnes and the absence of protection from being ripped off. That is entirely untrue. Your simplistic charicature of life under capitalism is utterly misleading and deviod of any trace of reality. Thus I now question not only your intelligence but your very mental stability. Be honest, are you, in fact, mentally handicapped? There is no shame in it if you are, best to come out of the closet, then we can understand your perspective better. Some of my best friends have down syndrome with severe autistic complications! |
I am entirely comfortable with my views and none your obnoxious suggestions makes me inclined to review them.
Capitalism has created an enormous number of crisis' in the world. From the way wealth is distributed, to the exploitation of workers, to imperialist aggression over scarce resources and the creation of many forms of inequality.
To not acknowledge that 80% of the world doen't share the same privilege and advantage that you have because of capitalism, in my view, is arrogant.
It seems a little crude to hijack a thread on trolls to debate communism further, so that is the last I'm going to say on the matter. |
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