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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| cheem wrote: |
| Zulu wrote: |
| I've posted this stuff before but seems you're in some kind of denial. |
I think it's something a bit more deep-rooted than denial. If you're feeling masochistic enough to sift through his posts, you'll notice they're just a morass of wild, shallow, and unsubstantiated assertions. I thought about crushing his arguments as well but there's a hint of zeal in them that suggests that the effort would be out the window. |
Spoken by someone who doesn't have a case. Good one. |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Zulu wrote: |
| eamo wrote: |
| Anyway. Put an I-pod into a good stereo and play a song recorded at the average of 128 kbps. Then play a real CD of the song. You should hear quite a difference. |
Eamo, do you actually think at 128 kbps it's going to sound any better on real speakers with any other mp3 player? |
Yes. I said it, CNET said it. What further proof do you need? iPod produces a lower signal to noise ratio which means that the sound quality is going to be something more like a radio than CD. Still don't get it? Raise the volume, if your speakers crack early then the problem is the source not being powerful enough to drive the music at a louder volume.
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A 60 GB 'pod will at least allow you to rip at much higher bitrates and still hold a lot of tunes and video.
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The only thing most MP3 players don't support that iPods do is AAC (which is an Apple supported format). Then Apple doesn't support FLAC or OGG. |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| rocklee wrote: |
| The same goes for Apple in Japan and Korea, I can assure you that the home grown products are way more popular. |
iPod and iTunes hold more than 50% market share in Japan http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/feb2006/gb20060223_774050.htm and Sony, the #2 there, holds a distant 16%. I've posted this stuff before but seems you're still in some kind of denial.
| rocklee wrote: |
| Having lived in Japan for 3 years I can say that there has been an increase in iPod user....Apple gained momentum but it is still nowhere near as prominent as the ...mobile phone and PDA users in the country. Sony is still rated number one manufacturer of audio devices. |
Prone to grasping at straws and a heaping helping of understatement, are we? I see that now you decide to include cellphones and PDAs as audio devices?  Can we include larynges and ears as well? And were those years you lived in Japan 1999-2001 or even earlier? Because you seem out of touch with what's going on in the tech scene. By the way, this I do get. If you rip with Apple Lossless, an ipod jacked thru decent speakers will sound excellent, as far as digital goes (I still prefer vinyl by a wide margin and loathe the digital overcompression trend). I've had no problems and it's certainly much better sounding than trying to do it with a yepp which is a baaaaad idea.
| rocklee wrote: |
| I can assure you that the single purpose MP3 player will be replaced by smarter devices such as mobile phones and multimedia players. . |
Your assurances seem to rely on discrediting me and other Apple users personally, rather than the linked evidence we provide that keeps disproving your raging anti-Apple-related 'facts'. Do you work for iRiver by any chance? By the way, ipods aren't "single puropse mp3 players" anymore either. They play vids in h.264, mpeg, store photos, slideshows, presentations, hold notes and translation software, calendars, games, etc, etc. Didn't you even know that?
| rocklee wrote: |
| I see Apple trying to take advantage of that as their next so-called innovation. |
Well, you're entitled to your opinion and hundreds of international business execs from the tech sector, BusinessWeek, established global consulting companies and tens of millions of "Mac cult" ipod users are entitled to theirs.
World's Most Innovative Companies - 2005, 2006
#1. Apple: 24.84 per cent;
2. 3M: 11.77 per cent;
3. Microsoft: 8.53 per cent;
4. GE: 8.53 per cent;
5. Sony: 5.94 per cent;
6. Dell: 5.62 per cent;
7. IBM: 5.29 per cent;
8. Google: 5.18 per cent;
9. Procter and Gamble: 4.21 per cent;
10. Nokia: 4.21 per cent;
http://www.finfacts.com/biz10/worldsinnovativecompanies.htm
As you can see, Apple tops the Global Innovation List at #1 in all three regions surveyed - Europe, North America and Asia-Pacific. They've held their #1 ranking across the world two years running. By the way, Samdung, the only Korean company to gain mention anywhere got only about 3%. So when they and LG can match Apple maybe we can talk (I suggest you get the Netizens on this one; they're good at bringing down foreign websites. Or maybe the chaebol could provide a little 'monetary incentive' to improve their ranking next time 'round?)
Gotta catch a flight to Narita but you take care now, RLee. And keep up your raging 'Lord of the Anti-Mac' tirades. I like to start my days with a good chuckle. |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| rocklee wrote: |
| cheem wrote: |
| Zulu wrote: |
| I've posted this stuff before but seems you're in some kind of denial. |
I think it's something a bit more deep-rooted than denial. If you're feeling masochistic enough to sift through his posts, you'll notice they're just a morass of wild, shallow, and unsubstantiated assertions. I thought about crushing his arguments as well but there's a hint of zeal in them that suggests that the effort would be out the window. |
Spoken by someone who doesn't have a case. Good one. |
Great rebuttal there Rocklee. Yeah you're right cheem, no point arguing with a wall, no matter how many cracks are in it. |
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re:cursive
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:20 am Post subject: |
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I don't care which company does it. But if anyone brings out a low noise, hard drive based portable recorder with good quality AD converters, manual monitoring/metering and a lot of storage space I will buy it.
Why doesn't any company make the connection between consumer level portable "mp3" players and the needs of pro-level field recording?
I hear that by hacking certain ipods and installing a version of podzilla, run on linux, it is possible to gain the possibility of audio recording but I still doubt the quality. I am also aware that the older iRiver's could do relatively high recording, however came with a bunch of digital artifacts that made this feature relatively useless for any serious purposes.
If anyone is aware of one in development, please let me know as I'm close to giving up the wait and buying a flash based recorder.
Oh yeah...I have an ipod...I needed more than 60 gig of space and the ipod was the only cost effective option. I have also now switched to a mac computer after close to a decade on primarily PC's. Why?...because they are the only option if I wish to use the new versions of Logic. So far I have been impressed. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| I hear that by hacking certain ipods and installing a version of podzilla, run on linux, it is possible to gain the possibility of audio recording but I still doubt the quality. |
uhm...
What?
Do you need all that stuff?
Griffin has a microphone that you can plug in and (with some basic software) record on your ipod with.
Here's a bunch of other stuff.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001WW398/104-3480681-4178348?v=glance&n=172282 |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| Zulu wrote: |
| rocklee wrote: |
| The same goes for Apple in Japan and Korea, I can assure you that the home grown products are way more popular. |
iPod and iTunes hold more than 50% market share in Japan http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/feb2006/gb20060223_774050.htm and Sony, the #2 there, holds a distant 16%. I've posted this stuff before but seems you're still in some kind of denial.
| rocklee wrote: |
| Having lived in Japan for 3 years I can say that there has been an increase in iPod user....Apple gained momentum but it is still nowhere near as prominent as the ...mobile phone and PDA users in the country. Sony is still rated number one manufacturer of audio devices. |
Prone to grasping at straws and a heaping helping of understatement, are we? I see that now you decide to include cellphones and PDAs as audio devices? Can we include larynges and ears as well? And were those years you lived in Japan 1999-2001 or even earlier? Because you seem out of touch with what's going on in the tech scene. By the way, this I do get. If you rip with Apple Lossless, an ipod jacked thru decent speakers will sound excellent, as far as digital goes (I still prefer vinyl by a wide margin and loathe the digital overcompression trend). I've had no problems and it's certainly much better sounding than trying to do it with a yepp which is a baaaaad idea.
| rocklee wrote: |
| I can assure you that the single purpose MP3 player will be replaced by smarter devices such as mobile phones and multimedia players. . |
Your assurances seem to rely on discrediting me and other Apple users personally, rather than the linked evidence we provide that keeps disproving your raging anti-Apple-related 'facts'. Do you work for iRiver by any chance? By the way, ipods aren't "single puropse mp3 players" anymore either. They play vids in h.264, mpeg, store photos, slideshows, presentations, hold notes and translation software, calendars, games, etc, etc. Didn't you even know that?
| rocklee wrote: |
| I see Apple trying to take advantage of that as their next so-called innovation. |
Well, you're entitled to your opinion and hundreds of international business execs from the tech sector, BusinessWeek, established global consulting companies and tens of millions of "Mac cult" ipod users are entitled to theirs.
World's Most Innovative Companies - 2005, 2006
#1. Apple: 24.84 per cent;
2. 3M: 11.77 per cent;
3. Microsoft: 8.53 per cent;
4. GE: 8.53 per cent;
5. Sony: 5.94 per cent;
6. Dell: 5.62 per cent;
7. IBM: 5.29 per cent;
8. Google: 5.18 per cent;
9. Procter and Gamble: 4.21 per cent;
10. Nokia: 4.21 per cent;
http://www.finfacts.com/biz10/worldsinnovativecompanies.htm
As you can see, Apple tops the Global Innovation List at #1 in all three regions surveyed - Europe, North America and Asia-Pacific. They've held their #1 ranking across the world two years running. By the way, Samdung, the only Korean company to gain mention anywhere got only about 3%. So when they and LG can match Apple maybe we can talk (I suggest you get the Netizens on this one; they're good at bringing down foreign websites. Or maybe the chaebol could provide a little 'monetary incentive' to improve their ranking next time 'round?)
Gotta catch a flight to Narita but you take care now, RLee. And keep up your raging 'Lord of the Anti-Mac' tirades. I like to start my days with a good chuckle. |
I think I've made my point. You can keep posting that link all you want but its origin is not from Japan and looks merely speculative.
Here's my data :
1位（↑） Samsung YP-Z5FAS
2位（↓） Sony NW-E005 バイオレット (2GB)
3位（↓） iPod nano MA005J/A ホワイト (4GB)
4位（↓） iPod MA002J/A ホワイト (30GB)
5位（→） iPod nano MA004J/A ホワイト (2GB)
6位（↓） Sony NW-A1000 (シルバー)
7位（↓） iPod MA003J/A ホワイト (60GB)
8位（→） Samsung YP-C1Z
9位（↓） Panasonic D-snap Audio SV-SD750V-A ブルー
10位（↓） iPod MA146J/A ブラック (30GB)
Pretty good considering that :
- Japan doesn't really promote many Korean products
- Japanese MP3 players are very restrictive when it comes to playing MP3s (Sony mostly accepts ATRAC formats which is converted CD tracks at a much higher quality than MP3)
I don't work for iRiver nor am I a fan of any of the brands, but I think I am more up to date than you could ever be, especially when you say stupid stuff like this :
| Quote: |
| do you actually think at 128 kbps it's going to sound any better on real speakers with any other mp3 player? |
Haha, nice work dumbass.
I was going to write a rebuttal to your pointless posts but hey I don't want to interrupt your holiday. Have a nice flight.
Next please.  |
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Cigar_Guy
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Wow, there's a lot more to respond to.
| rocklee wrote: |
| People are first attracted to the advertisements, then they look at the features in big writing and they are sold. Apple does a great job of emphasising their products' benefits, they also do a great job of mocking everybody else (like their "mockery of Intel PCs"). This sort of tactic appeals to the young ones who wants individuality and snob-appeal. |
I'd like to make it completely clear that I won't argue with any of this. I personally think that the latest round of Mac ads (with the uptight PC user and the young unshaven "cool" Mac user) are idiotic on a number of levels. I also generally abhor Macintosh, their OS, and their advertisements (for the last ten years or so, starting with those awful "Think Different" magazine ads). Since High School I've been wondering why on earth Mac users are always telling me about how great their system is, and yet all the marketing emphasizes "Look at us, we're pretty!" (anyone else remember the first iMac ads? <shudder>).
| rocklee wrote: |
So with your analogy, most people here would agree that Apple fans come across as the most ignorant people on the face of the planet.
Um, no. Audiophiles actually KNOW what they're talking about. You don't. With that kind of ramble I don't think I need to answer this any further. |
My point is that audiophiles care about things to an extent that the vast, vast majority of people don't. You go on and on about how the iPod lacks a bunch of features that most people don't want or need, and an audio quality level that most people don't care about. There's also the issue of cost, both in size and actual price--how do you propose that they fit all these new features into the iPod? It seems like they'll have to either make it larger an heavier, cut out some other features, increase the price, or (most likely) some combination of the three. I think that most people would like some of these features that you mentioned, but the vast majority are going to get irate when the next generation of iPod is released and it jacks up the price to give them a bunch of features that they mostly won't use.
| rocklee wrote: |
| You may not think or realise it, but most people appreciate the additional features. |
The vast number of people who choose to buy the iPod, which has NONE of these features, would seem to contradict you. Perhaps my favorite example that you gave was that the iPod doesn't support lyrics. Are we to believe that most people want the option to scour the internet for lyric files to attach to their music so that they can look up the exact words to their music as they're going to work or riding the subway? Do we really think that any sizeable number of people would pay any more money for the iPod if it offered something like this?
| rocklee wrote: |
| They scrapped the Firewire support because they wanted to cater to the larger market (ie. the PC users). |
Not sure where you're getting that information from--my last few PCs have had FireWire ports, and my earlier iPod (the first one compatible with Windows) supported both USB and Firewire. I had read somewhere that the Firewire was done away with to make room for other internal components--I can't imagine the cost of the thing would have been that much a deciding factor.
| rocklee wrote: |
| Can you imagine buying a new remote every year just so that you could watch your TV? I don't think a lot of people can adapt to this ridiculous idea. |
Don't know what to tell you--buying new batteries every week for my iPod seems much more ridiculous (and expensive).
| rocklee wrote: |
| Um, what features? |
Easy connectivity to iTunes or similarly-user-friendly software (no, not Audiophile-friendly, but regular user-friendly), 60 Gig capacity for music, video and photos on a similarly-sized screen (along with the video and slideshow output options) with a 20-hour rechargeable battery in a similar size.
| rocklee wrote: |
Oh then you should really get into it and read more about Apple's dodgy business practices.
Did you know... [x5] |
To all five questions, I must say "No," and "I couldn't care less." My point was responding to your assertion that Apple somehow manipulated the market through their deal with Samsung, which prevented anyone else from acquiring the small Samsung-made HDs that Apple uses. My point is that there are other companies (including one, WD, that a rather large number of tech and business people tell me produce the best HDDs and flash drives out there) which could easily provide competitors with the equipment that they need. WD's CEO Matt Massengill made a big point of this in the article in Forbes, about how WD has realigned itself to new kind of storage devices, mostly because of the explosion in the personal music market.
| rocklee wrote: |
| Then I'm sorry to say that there is something wrong with your ears or you're listening to noise. You also don't know what you're talking about when it comes to comparing sound quality. |
I used to have a portable CD player that I'd listen to as I walked around campus. Then I got the iPod and ripped the music onto it, after which I heard the music much more clearly than before. Don't know what to tell you beyond this.
| rocklee wrote: |
| You are just an Apple apologist, and there is nothing wrong with that if you can admit it. |
As I stated above, I'm no fan of Apple in general (did anyone else see Steve Jobs' speech at Stanford's graduation last year? I've never seen an ego that big on display before). I think that the hype and adoration given to their computers by their fans is eclipsed only by the extent to which their stuff is overpriced. However, I think that they have a real winner on their hands with the iPod that goes beyond "Well, they spend a lot on advertising" and I'd recommend getting one to anyone who's looking for something to carry around their music, photos and some movies. |
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re:cursive
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| khyber wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I hear that by hacking certain ipods and installing a version of podzilla, run on linux, it is possible to gain the possibility of audio recording but I still doubt the quality. |
uhm...
What?
Do you need all that stuff?
Griffin has a microphone that you can plug in and (with some basic software) record on your ipod with.
Here's a bunch of other stuff.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001WW398/104-3480681-4178348?v=glance&n=172282 |
If you take a look at the tech specs of the product you linked to you will notice the following:
Recorded File Specs: 8kHz, 16 bit mono WAV files
This may suit some purposes, but not mine. It is a bit of a joke really especially when the ipod is capable of recording up to, if not more than 44.1kHz. It's a feature apple has disabled and the podzilla hack can enable it on some models.
Compare this mono 8kHz to the stereo 192kHz, 24bit recording on dedicated flash based recorders and there is a big difference in sound quality. |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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up to 260khz on some mp3 players, like mine.
yeah that is a bit of a joke and I've heard about the hack. Its specification isn't any better, but worst.
Another unknown fact, did you know that all iPods are actually also able to playback WMA? But Apple just refuse to do it. |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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CG,
I actually wrote a nice reply to your post but somehow it didn't get posted.
In short, I would like to apologise for my tone used when I was comparing your comments. You come across as a fairly level headed guy unlike the monkeys we have seen on this thread. |
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re:cursive
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| rocklee wrote: |
up to 260kHz on some mp3 players, like mine.
yeah that is a bit of a joke and I've heard about the hack. Its specification isn't any better, but worst.
Another unknown fact, did you know that all iPods are actually also able to playback WMA? But Apple just refuse to do it. |
Say what...
You have an mp3 player capable of recording line with a sample rate of 260khz? If this is true what is it? That is an extraordinary spec.
Are you sure you're not getting kilobytes per second mixed up with kilohertz? I don't even know of a sample rate that high among the most professional of professional soundcards. What bitrate is available? Is it stereo?
I want to know more. |
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rocklee
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| I'm sorry, brain fart (I'm at a PC Bang so I was in a real hurry). Should be kbps. Not 260 but 256 (I looked at your comment "Compare this mono 8kHz to the stereo 192kHz" wrongly). |
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