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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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 Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:33 pm Post subject: Terrorists fleeing Israeli self-defense activities |
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Israel is only trying to defend itself.
Refugees with foreign passports are evacuated from Tyre by British UN soldiers.
French nationals board a ferry as they are evacuated by ship from Beirut.
Refugees prepare to leave Tyre.
Refugees pray as they prepare to be evacuated from Tyre.
A woman injured in bombing is treated in the main hospital in Tyre.
Refugees preparing to be evacuated from Tyre by French UN soldiers.
People queue for bread in Tyre.
People leave Tyre by bus, headed for Beirut
An elderly couple left behind by the evacuation of Tyre and now stuck in the Rest House hotel deserted by the UN. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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RSR do you have evidence that Israel behaves worse than other nations during war time? That would be real helpful.
As I said if Hizzbollah is an organzation that doesn't seek Israel's destruction then Israel's actions are not justified. However if Hizzbollah is commited to a forever war against Israel with the ultimate goal of destroying Israel then Israel is justified in doing almost anything to destroy such an enemy cause they have an obligation to protect their nation.
Anything wrong with that? |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
RSR do you have evidence that Israel behaves worse than other nations during war time? That would be real helpful.
As I said if Hizzbollah is an organzation that doesn't seek Israel's destruction then Israel's actions are not justified. However if Hizzbollah is commited to a forever war against Israel with the ultimate goal of destroying Israel then Israel is justified in doing almost anything to destroy such an enemy cause they have an obligation to protect their nation.
Anything wrong with that? |
If some crazed radical group were firing missles across the border, would it be an appropriate response to bomb the capital of the country, destroy their airports, roads, all links for getting food aid and medical aid to their people, and kill thousands of their people who were innocent non-combatants, and arrest their national legislature in the belief that this would somehow indirectly put the necessary pressure on the radical group to stop firing missles?
Actually, the hypothetical example that I'm thinking of is this: There's a crazed, violent, radical group on the Mexican side of the US/Mexico border firing missles into New Mexico or Arizona, would it be OK for the Americans to bomb Mexico City, send in troups to arrest their national legislature, destroy all the main transportation corridors in Mexico thereby cutting off the innocent people of Mexico from essential food and medicines and access to health care as a way of somehow indirectly silencing this radical, missle-firing group?
If the answer is no in this case, why is it yes in the case of Israel destroying Lebanon? Hezbollah is a problem for Israel, to be sure, but it is not an existential threat to the nation of Israel. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:03 am Post subject: |
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I would answer that I don't think Israel is just targeting civilans and that Irael doesn't use more force than other nations at war. Neither one of us are experts in this : but infra structure that Hizzbolah needs is a fair target , so are Hizzbollah fighters and their organzation and their active supporters. If it prevents Hizzbllah from being resupplied and from flying out Israeli soldiers then the airport is fair game. If the roads are Hizzbollahs' support structure well then they are fair game too.
Over the long term Hizzbollah is a very serious problem for Israel. Does Israel just have to accept their attacks? It is understandable that Israel has to do everything and everything it can do to win. What ought Israel do? Just take it? Hizzbollah is their enemy are a right to destroy the group.
And there is no need to exagerate deaths on the Lebanese side. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
RSR do you have evidence that Israel behaves worse than other nations during war time? That would be real helpful.
As I said if Hizzbollah is an organzation that doesn't seek Israel's destruction then Israel's actions are not justified. However if Hizzbollah is commited to a forever war against Israel with the ultimate goal of destroying Israel then Israel is justified in doing almost anything to destroy such an enemy cause they have an obligation to protect their nation.
Anything wrong with that? |
If some crazed radical group were firing missles across the border, would it be an appropriate response to bomb the capital of the country, destroy their airports, roads, all links for getting food aid and medical aid to their people, and kill thousands of their people who were innocent non-combatants, and arrest their national legislature in the belief that this would somehow indirectly put the necessary pressure on the radical group to stop firing missles?
Actually, the hypothetical example that I'm thinking of is this: There's a crazed, violent, radical group on the Mexican side of the US/Mexico border firing missles into New Mexico or Arizona, would it be OK for the Americans to bomb Mexico City, send in troups to arrest their national legislature, destroy all the main transportation corridors in Mexico thereby cutting off the innocent people of Mexico from essential food and medicines and access to health care as a way of somehow indirectly silencing this radical, missle-firing group?
If the answer is no in this case, why is it yes in the case of Israel destroying Lebanon? Hezbollah is a problem for Israel, to be sure, but it is not an existential threat to the nation of Israel. |
The answer is yes, provided about a quarter of the Mexican legislature is composed of members of the same group firing the missiles. I'm also pretty sure if the US did that less people would be complaining even as there were more deaths. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| If the answer is no in this case, why is it yes in the case of Israel destroying Lebanon? Hezbollah is a problem for Israel, to be sure, but it is not an existential threat to the nation of Israel. |
Actually, if you had been following the thread on Iran's role, you would see that Hezbollah was well on its way to being an existential threat. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:01 am Post subject: |
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RSR: Israel is not "simply defending itself," and everyone knows it.
Israel takes the initiative, brings the fight to its enemies (and they are real, and they are determined to annihilate Tel Aviv and "the Jews," in case you have not been paying attn), and when they decide to hit, they hit.
It's Marine Corps counterambush tactics and how we drill, again and again until it becomes an instant reaction -- when someone ambushes your squad or larger unit, and you are caught up in it, the best way to defeat the threat and survive is to immediately move and flank your ambushers rather than dig in and fight the fight defensively, and on the ambushers' terms (the Army way, of course). It is an extremely aggressive tactic that leads to much loss in personnel on both sides. But it is quick, severe, and decisive.
Israel does that -- of course, on a much larger scale -- and it is not pretty or nice. I, for one, wholly support them in this, in spite of all of its shortcomings. And I am sorry that you are so unhappy that they are not wusses, but that is just the way it is. Deal with it. Because, unfortunately, that is just the way it goes. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| If some crazed radical group were firing missles across the border, would it be an appropriate response to bomb the capital of the country, destroy their airports, roads, all links for getting food aid and medical aid to their people, and kill thousands of their people who were innocent non-combatants, and arrest their national legislature in the belief that this would somehow indirectly put the necessary pressure on the radical group to stop firing missles? |
Absolutely! It is these self same civilians that allowed the hizbollah to come to power....they never forced their government to kick these terrorits out....the government never sought them out, prosecuted them or prevented them from their terrorist activities.
Lebanon has had twenty years in which to stop this terrorist group...nothing was done....when Isreali soldiers were kidnapped from ISREAL by a terrorist force acting with the sanction of the Lebanese government....now all Lebanese can take responsability for their own stupidity! |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
RSR do you have evidence that Israel behaves worse than other nations during war time? That would be real helpful.
As I said if Hizzbollah is an organzation that doesn't seek Israel's destruction then Israel's actions are not justified. However if Hizzbollah is commited to a forever war against Israel with the ultimate goal of destroying Israel then Israel is justified in doing almost anything to destroy such an enemy cause they have an obligation to protect their nation.
Anything wrong with that? |
If some crazed radical group were firing missles across the border, would it be an appropriate response to bomb the capital of the country, destroy their airports, roads, all links for getting food aid and medical aid to their people, and kill thousands of their people who were innocent non-combatants, and arrest their national legislature in the belief that this would somehow indirectly put the necessary pressure on the radical group to stop firing missles?
Actually, the hypothetical example that I'm thinking of is this: There's a crazed, violent, radical group on the Mexican side of the US/Mexico border firing missles into New Mexico or Arizona, would it be OK for the Americans to bomb Mexico City, send in troups to arrest their national legislature, destroy all the main transportation corridors in Mexico thereby cutting off the innocent people of Mexico from essential food and medicines and access to health care as a way of somehow indirectly silencing this radical, missle-firing group?
If the answer is no in this case, why is it yes in the case of Israel destroying Lebanon? Hezbollah is a problem for Israel, to be sure, but it is not an existential threat to the nation of Israel. |
Answer: yes. |
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